Marie Miller (00:00.066)
and she'll look in.

Terrible Scott (00:02.183)
I'm sorry, what was the last part of that sentence?

Marie Miller (00:05.148)
Non-consensual kink or being, yeah. Yep.

Terrible Scott (00:07.661)
Oh, yeah, okay.

Terrible Scott (00:11.577)
All right, awesome. Well, not awesome, but.

Producer Dan (00:12.551)
Cool. We got a clean bill of health from everybody on the recording.

Terrible Scott (00:18.721)
All right. And again, I'm sorry. I've never been late to one of our interviews before.

Producer Dan (00:19.971)
And...

Marie Miller (00:24.206)
Apology accepted. I'm just glad we're all here.

Terrible Scott (00:27.493)
All right, thank you. And I'm gonna pretend like I'm awake while we do this. But I stayed up way too late last night.

Producer Dan (00:27.824)
Me too.

Marie Miller (00:37.554)
Saturday, you know.

Terrible Scott (00:39.261)
Yeah. Well, they're all Saturdays for me. I'm not working right now.

Producer Dan (00:45.552)
All right.

Producer Dan (00:53.583)
You're tuned into Positively Terrible. I'm producer Dan, and each week, my buddy Scott and I discuss surviving and thriving after trauma. Oh, wait, hold on one sec. Marie, I'm going to read this. I'm going to say hi to Scott. We're going to talk for about one minute and then bring you into the conversation. Cool. All right. You're tuned into Positively Terrible. I'm producer Dan, and each week, my buddy Scott and I discuss surviving and thriving after trauma. It's a journey that started when Scott

his wife's fiance and her boyfriend walked into a bar. This week's Decent Human Being is Marie. She's got a fucked up story about non-consensual kinks and emotional abuse. Settle in my terrible listeners. Today's episode is going to be positively terrible. Hey Scott.

Terrible Scott (01:40.109)
Dan, what's going on man?

Producer Dan (01:42.959)
Well, my kid went to a sleepover last night and then she came home sick at 7.15 this morning. So my day is going all right, how about yours?

Terrible Scott (01:46.926)
Ooh.

Terrible Scott (01:50.682)
Ha ha.

Well, I woke up four minutes ago, approximately. Um, my hair's a mess. If we release any video, uh, I know it, I know it's a mess, but that's okay. Um, and I stayed up too late last night, but we're recording on a Sunday and the bears don't play today, so I don't have to waste my time watching them lose or whatever they do. So I am very good today. Very good today.

Producer Dan (02:01.742)
Oh, we're gonna.

Terrible Scott (02:23.221)
Uh, how was the circus last week?

Producer Dan (02:25.879)
The circus was a big hit at our house. It was entertaining. Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey does not have animals anymore. So it was all people acts. And my daughter was entertained for two and a half hours. You can't ask for a whole lot more than that.

Terrible Scott (02:29.271)
8.

Terrible Scott (02:40.885)
Yeah. Awesome. Not to be too woke over here, but very glad that, uh, they've taken the animals out of the circus at this point. Uh, it sounds like a great time. The robot dog. Well, I mean, you can put a dog in the circus. I'm not that worried about that because they're domesticated anyway, but I'm not going to spending more time on that other than to ask Marie, have you ever been to the circus?

Producer Dan (02:51.995)
They had a robot dog.

Marie Miller (03:07.586)
have, we always went to the Shriner Circus when we were kids and then I joined a backyard circus as an adult, but we didn't have animals there.

Terrible Scott (03:14.953)
I'm sorry, a backyard circus, I don't know what that is.

Marie Miller (03:20.094)
It was literally in my friend's backyard. And so it was a bunch of acrobatics, black light acts. It was actually more vaudeville style, but they called it technomania circus. But it was literally in the backyard of a friend's house where they had a whole stage and everything.

Terrible Scott (03:23.588)
Hehehe

Terrible Scott (03:30.885)
Okay, we're now-

Producer Dan (03:34.971)
So you are a circus performer.

Terrible Scott (03:35.555)
We.

Marie Miller (03:37.566)
Yes.

Terrible Scott (03:38.597)
We have

Producer Dan (03:38.619)
This is the best lead in we've ever done.

Terrible Scott (03:41.893)
We have just changed the topic of today's episode. You are listening to positively terrible. No, I'm not going to read, read the intro, but, um, I'm sorry listeners. If you want to get dive right into the, the traumatic events, but you were performing in this, you said you were in, what did you do?

Producer Dan (03:44.411)
Hahaha

Marie Miller (04:06.53)
was, well, I met them because I needed a space for my theater company because we were doing like this Lovecraft piece. And we needed so we're doing Blacklight theater to begin with, it was just like a natural partnership because they also did a lot of Blacklight acts. And so I ended up learning how to do like the Russian ladder trick, which is like a sort of acrobatic thing with two ladders and a lot of people and not falling over even though you think we're going to. And then I'd just have a pop a tree and I played my trumpet.

Terrible Scott (04:29.867)
Okay.

Marie Miller (04:34.622)
I did a little bit of drag there, all sorts of fun stuff.

Terrible Scott (04:37.541)
Okay, so we've got one specific listener who formerly guessed it on this, who sends texts that says things like, we're 12 minutes in and I don't know what this episode is about yet. And I'm sorry, Mike, I know you're gonna send us that text again, but I am stuck on this. Well, it's not just the circus. You said Blacklight Theater. What the hell is that? I mean, I assume, you know, I'm not gonna assume anything. I'll let you explain.

Producer Dan (04:52.111)
This episode is about traumatic circus performing, Mike. Enjoy it.

Marie Miller (05:06.678)
It's honestly a lot of puppetry, because I don't know if you're familiar with H.P. Lovecraft, the writer, but he will send, yeah, five pages going like, it's not this, it's not that one described as monsters. He says everything but what it isn't, but not what it is. And so it's really fun trying to create the monsters for it, because I love doing monster creation for horror theater. And...

Terrible Scott (05:11.293)
Um, kind of, yeah.

Marie Miller (05:30.314)
We realized that in order to really accurately depict what's in these writings is you kind of have to do black light because it's so weird. Like when we did dreams in the witch house, like there's all these things as other dimensional that weren't supposed to, you know, all the non-lucid utility in geometry, I can say it. Like that was the only way we could think to depict it was to go into black light. And so our plays were a mix of acting and puppetry.

with a couple of them, we actually had a live band.

Terrible Scott (06:00.454)
This is awesome.

Producer Dan (06:02.823)
This sounds awesome. Where, where's this backyard and when is the next performance?

Terrible Scott (06:04.195)
Yeah, it sounds awesome.

Marie Miller (06:08.358)
Well, I'm actually not currently doing that anymore. It was in San Diego and the circus did take a break, but apparently it's back on, so I can reach out to them and find where the new location is.

Terrible Scott (06:21.517)
I've got more questions. A literal backyard. Is that what you're saying?

Marie Miller (06:29.062)
It literally was. They had this cute little house and then they built risers behind it. They built a stage. They had a school bus parked which is kind of like a changing room. It was literally just in a backyard. They built this whole space and I think we had seating for 50 people.

Terrible Scott (06:43.461)
Okay. Is this a single family home? I mean, do they, what is the zoning laws? Ha ha ha.

Producer Dan (06:43.728)
Fantastic.

Marie Miller (06:53.942)
Well, that's why they had to move.

Terrible Scott (06:56.765)
Oh, okay.

Marie Miller (06:59.33)
fire department kind of heard about it and then they moved him to a church and they were using that for a long time in old church. So I don't know what the news is.

Terrible Scott (07:06.117)
Okay, I, yeah, you know what? We could talk forever on this, or I could anyway. I've got so many more questions. Listeners might have some of the questions too. I'll tell you what, listeners, terrible listeners, if you've got questions, send them via email, send them over social media, podcast at positivelyterrible.com or at Positively Terrible on social media. I am going to forward them to Marie.

Uh, she hasn't agreed to answer any follow-ups later, but she's a one, uh, she's a wonderful human being. I, I'm almost positive that she'll, that, that we can give her these questions and she'll give us answers cause I've got about a dozen more and I'm certainly going to start writing them down, but Marie, hi, welcome former circus performer, form is theater. Well, I say, I'm gonna say former theater or is theater something you currently do.

Producer Dan (07:38.471)
She has not agreed to anything.

Marie Miller (08:03.67)
I'm on a pause, I will come back to it, because there's still shows in my head that I can see fully.

Terrible Scott (08:10.405)
Okay, well, I'm on a pause from being gainfully employed. So we've got that in common, but Marie, let's back up a little bit. Again, I'll admit to the listeners that I slept in this morning. I didn't review my notes for this interview. So I'm not going in blind, Marie and I have spoke already, but I can't remember everything. So let's back up. And I heard...

Producer Dan (08:10.695)
I liked it.

Terrible Scott (08:39.977)
I heard Dan say non-consensual kink. Could you just explain what that is?

Marie Miller (08:46.85)
So it's different from CNC, consensual, non-consent, where you decide to go into a non-consensual thing. What happened was I realized year's letter that my ex had a kink, and I had not consented to be a part of it.

Terrible Scott (09:03.266)
And when you say you're ex and years later, how old were you when this was going on?

Marie Miller (09:10.65)
Um, so I was 24 when I met, no, yeah, 24 when I met my ex-husband. And, um, yeah, so that was a little bit ago.

Terrible Scott (09:20.793)
All right. All right, so tell us a little bit about that. So let's start and talk about this just relationship. You said ex-husband, so there had to be a point where things were going well. You know what? I shouldn't assume anything, but I'm going to say that most people when they get married believe things are going well. So was your relationship with this person pretty normal to start out with?

Marie Miller (09:32.726)
Mm-hmm.

Marie Miller (09:51.954)
Yeah, I think so. We actually met through theater. Yeah, I was out of town and someone elected him president of the board and I did not vote for him. And we actually didn't get along at first.

Terrible Scott (10:05.134)
I'm sorry, you said you're out of town. You didn't vote at all or you voted for someone else? Oh, okay. Got it.

Marie Miller (10:09.386)
I missed the vote. I missed the vote. And here's this dude who thought he knew a bunch of stuff, but actually didn't know much enough about theater for my take.

Terrible Scott (10:17.945)
So, no offense, but I've heard some things about theater people every once in a while. Sounds like, did he fall into that kind of stereotypical theater person then that might be a little bit obnoxious? Oh, okay.

Marie Miller (10:32.73)
No, he was, I mean, he was definitely a know-it-all. He was a know-it-all about everything. He didn't know it all about theater, that was the problem. If he would have actually known more, it would have been, if he wasn't like showing up in the way that he was acting.

Terrible Scott (10:38.056)
Okay.

Terrible Scott (10:47.177)
Okay, I got you. So, uh, at this point, you said you didn't vote for him. You were not in town. Were you already familiar with him? I mean, was he like part of a troop that you were in or how did that work?

Marie Miller (10:57.539)
I am a

Marie Miller (11:00.75)
That's the thing, he wasn't even an actor. He was the brother of one of the main actresses that I worked with that group.

Terrible Scott (11:07.369)
So how did, I mean, I'm confused.

Marie Miller (11:10.346)
Yeah, I don't know how I got on the board either. It was kind of random.

Terrible Scott (11:13.653)
Okay, so you leave, he gets voted in, you come back or whatever. I say leave, you just said you weren't there, but you said you didn't like him or you didn't get along or I'm not sure what words you used were, but.

Marie Miller (11:27.547)
No, I thought it was kind of a condescending asshole when I first met him, and I probably should have stuck to that perception of him.

Terrible Scott (11:34.549)
Well, how did... I was gonna say, how did it change? What happened?

Marie Miller (11:38.038)
Um, so he pissed me off. So I cast him as the lead character in a show just cause to make him. And so we ended up working together a lot.

Producer Dan (11:47.191)
That's the best revenge plot I've ever heard.

Terrible Scott (11:51.653)
I'm I just want to know what his circus act was.

Marie Miller (11:55.187)
Oh, this was way before the circus.

Terrible Scott (11:58.085)
Okay, so what was the role? Was this a famous work or was this something that was like original?

Marie Miller (12:08.162)
No, it was Bell Booking Candle and he played the romantic lead. I think the character's name was Shep. And coincidentally, the theater company's name was Red and Circus just to bring all the circus into it.

Producer Dan (12:22.84)
Nice.

Terrible Scott (12:23.018)
Alright, so how'd he do though? You said he wasn't an actor.

Marie Miller (12:27.727)
He actually was a good actor. He did really well.

Terrible Scott (12:30.705)
Oh, okay. So do we know him now as Tom Cruise or? No.

Marie Miller (12:37.414)
Oh gosh, no, he's an IT guy that like, unless you're in Cleveland, you really haven't heard of him.

Terrible Scott (12:43.617)
Oh, so he's big in Cleveland is what I'm hearing. I got you. All right, so he performed. He wasn't really an actor, but crushed it at this role. Your revenge plot backfired. He becomes an awesome actor and you fall in love. How did that happen?

Marie Miller (13:00.358)
I mean, just from the working together, but if we're also gonna feed into the theme of the trauma, what had happened before I met him was I had undergone an assault. And so I was in this really weird place. And during, and all the other part of the assault was the person I was dating at the time said, you weren't really assaulted. It was consensual, hired lawyers to try to prove his point and ended up like yelling at me for days at a time.

So when I met this guy, I was already in a very, very weak place and pretty broken down. And part of the reason I fell for him is because I'm like, oh, because he was barrel chested and bigger. I'm like, you're safe. You can protect me. And a couple of months after the play ended, he's like, I know this is crazy, but do you want to move to Australia with me? And if you think about it, you're like, okay, my life kind of sucks. I still haven't recovered from my first trauma.

And here's this handsome guy whisking me away to a foreign country. Of course I'm going to go. But I couldn't work there and I got disempowered even more.

Terrible Scott (14:03.461)
Yeah, I-

Terrible Scott (14:08.685)
Yeah, I'll come back to that, but I just wanna clarify a little bit. When you said you were assaulted, it wasn't perfectly clear at first, but it sounds like you were assaulted by your former partner, your previous partner. Oh, oh, okay.

Marie Miller (14:12.237)
Yeah.

Marie Miller (14:26.698)
No, it was actually, no, it was actually a co-worker's boyfriend who assaulted me when I was out of town. And then I came.

Terrible Scott (14:36.201)
Okay. And I interpreted that to be sexual assault? Okay. So some non-consensual whatever, and it was a co-worker's boyfriend. Was this a co-worker that you were friendly with?

Marie Miller (14:45.014)
Yep, it was a sexual assault.

Marie Miller (15:02.314)
I mean, I knew her slightly. It was with, so I used to sell books door to door, and we're not gonna go down that road. And it was with a company that was related to them. And for everyone who worked for that actual company, there was this layer of safety, but this was like someone who was on the fringe.

Terrible Scott (15:17.973)
Okay. You said you're not gonna go down that road. I'm not gonna ask you to. I feel like there are a lot of roads that we can go down today. Ha ha ha.

Marie Miller (15:28.31)
Oh, we can talk for hours about, I did door-to-door sales for five years in five different states. That's how I paid for college. It was...

Terrible Scott (15:34.525)
Oh my God, that sounds horrible. Do you have one? Is there one story that stands out from doing door to door sales?

Marie Miller (15:44.398)
Okay, we'll tell this one. So it's when I was in upstate New York and this is when I was like 19 and I was driving a 77, OZmobile Omega, which was like half Bondo, right? So it was like this. It had a particular look to it, right? Which made people make assumptions about me that were a little bit different. So when, and I was in the country, so you'd pull down random driveways and be like, yo, hey, do you have kids? And just, you know.

Terrible Scott (15:47.598)
Okay.

Producer Dan (15:59.352)
Yeah.

Terrible Scott (16:01.805)
Yeah.

Marie Miller (16:11.902)
It was kind of, it was kind of fun. To me it was an adventure. And so there's one long driveway I come down and I get to the bottom and there's this huge gorgeous house. This guy's washing his brand new Porsche Carrera. I get out of the car, he's like, who are you? And how'd you get past my security guards? And I'm like, what's security guards? And we just start talking. And he just thought I had a lot of moxie. And he's like, well, I'll get a book for me, even though my kids are grown. So we got one book.

Terrible Scott (16:29.689)
Hahahaha

Marie Miller (16:42.706)
and he put his name on my list that I showed everybody. And after that, everyone who was self-employed bought, you know, rushed to the door when they saw me and immediately bought something without me having to do my pitch.

Come to find out I'd sold the mob boss. And they, because it was a beat up looking drug running type car, they just assumed.

Terrible Scott (17:03.609)
Oh, all right.

Marie Miller (17:13.09)
So that was a pretty fun summer.

Terrible Scott (17:16.241)
It sounds like it.

Producer Dan (17:19.48)
That's awesome.

Terrible Scott (17:21.685)
I don't think I've ever sold anything to a mob boss. So you got me there. That does sound awesome. So Marie, I think I'm gonna struggle today because I wanna follow all of these roads. I, and I will say, you said you moved to Australia. Yeah, yeah.

Producer Dan (17:45.199)
Yeah, let's take it back to Australia. I'm not going to let you follow all of these Scott. We have a schedule. So Marie, you're in Australia and you moved there on a whim with a handsome barrel chested fellow who swept you off your feet and brought you to another country. Was he Australian or why was he going to Australia?

Marie Miller (17:47.524)
Yeah.

Terrible Scott (17:51.117)
I know you're not. Ah, fuck. Okay.

Marie Miller (17:58.699)
Mm-hmm.

Marie Miller (18:06.818)
Pretty much.

Terrible Scott (18:06.979)
All right, we're just gonna.

Marie Miller (18:10.182)
No, he had gotten an IT gig with their government. So he was doing some pretty, I guess he called it vaporware. So yes, we were in Canberra because we had been in the government offices.

Terrible Scott (18:16.802)
Okay.

Terrible Scott (18:22.377)
Okay, so go ahead.

Producer Dan (18:22.683)
And you go along for the ride and you can't. Yeah. I mean, your visa doesn't allow you to work or you just can't get a job.

Marie Miller (18:30.622)
No, my visa didn't allow me to work. And I actually had to go in at one point and prove how cool of a tourist I was. Like you have to take receipts of like places you've been and like talk about things. It was really...

Terrible Scott (18:43.023)
Oh, I thought maybe it was just talking about selling books to a mob bus. Not that. Okay. So you prove to them that you're a cool tourist and I'm going to, I have absolutely no doubts that you're a cool tourist and your husband is there for,

Marie Miller (18:47.627)
Nope.

Terrible Scott (19:07.213)
boyfriend at the time, I think, was there for a job. We'll just call him Tom Cruise as a pseudonym right now. So you traveled to Australia with Tom Cruise, you're not married yet, and you're disempowered because you can't work. Are you feeling that at the time, or are you just like, hey, this is a fucking vacation for me? A long one.

Marie Miller (19:30.638)
I mean, the beginning part was like, oh, this is a fucking vacation for me, but I'm also trying to figure out how to fill my time because there's only so many hikes you can do. So I was working on my writing skills. I did not make it as a short story writer and that's okay. I think I might have gotten a little bit better at storytelling since then. And plus I was trying to write science fiction, which is not my jam. I will watch the hell out of it, but I am not a great science fiction writer. So it kind of crept in later.

Terrible Scott (19:43.557)
Okay.

Terrible Scott (19:57.413)
Okay, and how long were you with him? Did you get married in Australia or was that when you came back or how'd that work?

Marie Miller (20:06.934)
It was after we came back. We came back, yeah, we came back to take, we stayed there for about a little over a year. We were actually trying to work towards citizenship because he loved it over there so much, but that takes years. But his dad got, his dad's Parkinson got worse, so we came home to talk to, take care of him.

Terrible Scott (20:08.834)
Okay.

Terrible Scott (20:26.917)
Yeah, makes sense.

And when we're talking about, we haven't gotten into the trauma really yet, but is it something that is taking place as you're dating or did that come later when you're married?

Marie Miller (20:46.018)
What, the abuse? Oh, it was honestly, it started in Australia because a lot of it went, so how it looked at first was, he would, okay, he also, it turns out he did cocaine, so that didn't help either, which I am not into. If you're into that, that's fine, but like, just not my jam. So he would get high sometimes, and I didn't even realize this was going on for the first.

Terrible Scott (20:47.964)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marie Miller (21:13.378)
couple years. So it took my wallet to figure out that he had this problem. But he would like talk at me for several hours and just basically just a slurry of words, all these deep concepts, because we love to talk. That's one of the reasons I fell in love with him was I love to go into really, really deep conversations. And I love to nerd out about things and imagine things. And but then it took a turn to where it'd be sort of like him.

saying all these negative things about me and breaking down all my flaws, and then expecting me to respond after I've been talked at for three hours when I'm exhausted, it's two in the morning. And I just have nothing left.

Terrible Scott (21:55.457)
Yeah, that's just breaking you down more or less.

Marie Miller (21:56.682)
Yeah.

Marie Miller (22:00.566)
Yep, pretty much. I spent a lot of time just breaking me down.

Terrible Scott (22:05.777)
And you know, a lot of abusers.

try to separate you from friends, isolate you, I should say, from friends, family. So moving to Australia might've been for his career, but it probably worked out pretty well for him.

Marie Miller (22:25.222)
It did, because I was, I mean, I made friends with some of the neighbors. We had a few friends. Um, but yeah, it was pretty isolating. Especially because zoom wasn't like a big thing yet. Cause this was in 2001.

Terrible Scott (22:38.178)
Sure.

Terrible Scott (22:41.577)
Okay, I'm not sure Zoom was available at all at that point.

Terrible Scott (22:50.285)
when he began doing this.

What? I mean, do you remember kind of the first time that it happened?

Marie Miller (23:04.258)
I'm pretty sure it's one of the times in Australia, because I know it at least, yeah, it started when we were there, but it started really slowly. And especially a lot of the negative things started slowly because I had gained a little bit of weight when we got together, because I went on the pill and my body didn't like it. And so that was one of the first things that started was him like pinching my rolls and making fun of my weight was one of the first things that he started doing.

Terrible Scott (23:31.045)
Did he kind of hide it behind playfulness or was it... I mean it was probably... it was malicious I'm sure, but did it seem more like playfulness?

Marie Miller (23:41.95)
You know what? It's all I can remember is how much it hurt, not if he was trying to be playful or not.

Terrible Scott (23:48.045)
Yeah, well, and let's be honest, even if he was disguising it as being playful, it sounds like it wasn't period. It was, uh, it was a character flaw in him. Um, okay.

Marie Miller (23:49.602)
See ya.

Marie Miller (23:57.951)
No, it was not.

Marie Miller (24:03.382)
Although the irony between that is, the woman he's with now makes all of her men super fat, so they can't leave her.

Terrible Scott (24:13.377)
I'm...

Marie Miller (24:14.05)
That's a whole other story.

Terrible Scott (24:15.609)
I was gonna say.

Producer Dan (24:15.811)
Yeah, that seems like its own kind of weird kink.

Terrible Scott (24:19.881)
Yeah, I and that's not your story to tell right now. So and that's not me telling you not to tell. It and I'm sorry, that's not meant to be like critical. I don't tell his story. I'm just saying you're not going to have enough of the details for us here. But. It sounds like when I asked, like the first time you have it, it happened, you said, I'm pretty sure it was in Australia.

Marie Miller (24:19.895)
We'll be good.

Producer Dan (24:25.807)
But if she wants to reach out and get on the show.

Terrible Scott (24:50.033)
When you say pretty sure, does that mean that it could have happened before the move or after you came back? Or... Okay.

Marie Miller (24:59.782)
No, it was not before the move. Cause yeah, things did start to go sour in Australia. Things started to get weird over there.

Terrible Scott (25:07.405)
Okay. Did you realize it at the time that it was getting weird?

Marie Miller (25:13.766)
You know, I was so head over heels. I was still convinced to myself that everything was normal and fine and that it was okay. And I was still in this space of making excuses for it.

Terrible Scott (25:25.089)
Yeah. And that happens a lot. And, and, and it's your Tom Cruz. And I'm realizing right now that I'm, that I'm dating myself, that the, the sexy famous actor I can come up with is Tom Cruise. Um, I can't come up with somebody more recent and relevant to our younger listeners than that, but okay. So you're in Australia, whatever you're, I, I want to, I want to follow the Australia.

the road right now more than I'm going to. Cause I'm like, okay, did you have kangaroos? Like they're like deer over there, right? They're everywhere is my impression.

Marie Miller (26:04.206)
They are like deer. They really are. They're.

Terrible Scott (26:05.841)
Okay. Except well built deer. I see all these kangaroo pictures where they're like almost flexing at the cameras. But anyway,

Marie Miller (26:17.088)
the

Terrible Scott (26:22.697)
Where, when you mentioned, I mean, we specifically said that this is about a non-consensual kink. When does that start to come in?

Marie Miller (26:32.27)
That started more when we got back and we were taking care of his dad. So I was home with his mother most days helping take care. And like I said, it took me years to realize what was really going on, but those like long monologues that he would do, he actually perfected them to the point where, so he could get me to cry. And I don't like to cry, right? I actually like had to learn how to cry. Cause I...

grew up shoving my emotions into a box and being strong and being a tomboy. And so he would pretty much do everything he could to get me to cry and as soon as he started crying, then he would proceed to be intimate with me.

Terrible Scott (27:14.421)
Was that his? I've got a lot of questions there. I don't, I don't totally.

understand the mindset of course, is he, was it that he could make you feel better after you were crying or do you, I guess I'm asking you to get into his head and I don't know that you can do that.

Marie Miller (27:43.178)
No, because it wasn't about me, because that's the thing, is he would get really, really hot for me as soon as I started crying. And the person he left me for was actually like, she would faint a lot. So there is something that he has around weakness. She actually died and come back, which is a whole other story. So there is something about he liked women who were broken down on weekends. So he would do as much as he could to break me down. And he started losing interest in me when I eventually started to heal and was getting better and feeling better about myself.

Terrible Scott (28:13.486)
I want a GIF of the face Dan made a second ago. Dan, can you do that on command? Because I want to see it again. Ah, fuck.

Producer Dan (28:22.519)
Nope, nope. But if you surprise me with an offbeat comment about somebody dying and coming back. And yeah, and I I'm very excited. And that's another road we won't go down right now. Yes.

Terrible Scott (28:36.229)
Okay. It's another episode. It's a different episode. Again, not Marie's story to share because you didn't... Yeah. Oh, oh, yeah.

Producer Dan (28:45.495)
And Maria, I want you to know that I love all the stories you're telling too. That's why we're not following all these paths. Cause we like your story.

Terrible Scott (28:55.106)
And when I say, excuse me, when I say not your story to tell, all I'm saying, I want you to I want you to scratch the surface of all these stories. I do want to hear them. I'm not being critical that you shouldn't be talking about them. I'm just trying to get back on track. So he after you left, he got involved with one of those.

goats that faints every time that something shocks them.

Marie Miller (29:24.606)
It was more hideous than that. They worked together and she wormed her way into being my BFF. So the three of us would actually hang out together a lot.

Terrible Scott (29:27.49)
It's what?

Terrible Scott (29:36.185)
Jesus Christ, okay. Ha ha ha.

Marie Miller (29:37.674)
Yep. And she was, what I love though, cause they're still married as far as I know, they're both the most manipulative, Machiavellian people I ever met. So they're actually a really good match. So they can basically be in this head fuck together for eternity and be super happy cause they're both fucking each other over all the time. They're equal levels of this.

Terrible Scott (29:48.545)
Uh.

Hey

Terrible Scott (29:58.066)
I, you know.

So, so not decent? Well, well, what I, what I like about this, what gives me the warm and fuzzies is that they are not out there finding decent fucking humans at this point, they've found each other and are giving each other that kind of trauma and letting the rest of us decent fucking humans find other decent fucking humans.

Producer Dan (30:02.523)
somebody for everybody. Isn't that really wonderful?

Marie Miller (30:06.624)
It's so adorable.

Terrible Scott (30:31.553)
So I like that. Okay. But I don't even, there are so many roads, I'm losing track of where we're at even. So he married this other woman, which is fine and dandy, probably the best thing that could happen for the world. When did your marriage break down?

Marie Miller (30:59.306)
You know, I'm so freaking stubborn. I'm really glad she interceded. I would have held on for a few more years and it was really seriously affecting my health. Honestly, uh, because I was in such huge denial because I also believe like you get married once. That was such a huge belief because I was raised Catholic and I had some belief even though I'm super pagan ever since I was 16. But still there was some remnants of it. But that belief of like that one true love and my stubborn ass wasn't gonna give up.

Terrible Scott (31:14.989)
Yeah.

Terrible Scott (31:20.268)
Yeah, sure same

Marie Miller (31:27.562)
and thought I could fix it. And I thought at one point that I had like, we, you know, stolen him back from her. I thought I'd won the battle, but actually when she died and came back and we were taking care of her, that kind of cemented it. And that's when I'm like, nope, I lost the battle for him. And then he had the audacity a few months later, cause you know, it took a while to decouple, to come to me and say, you know, I think I'm really poly. And I'm like, okay, that's your truth.

Terrible Scott (31:41.918)
Okay.

Marie Miller (31:56.61)
He's like, but I want to spend four days with her and you and three with me. Or yeah, four days with her and three with you. And I'm like, fuck you, I'm the wife, I should get four, it's over. Which was funny, my stubborn ass brain, that's what it took. Was her getting one more day a week than me to be like, wait, this is fucked, this is not what I want. And I said, go live with her. It's over.

Terrible Scott (32:05.177)
Hahaha!

Terrible Scott (32:12.153)
Right. So, I mean, at the time, I mean, you just said you wanted the fourth day. Was that an out for you, though?

Marie Miller (32:28.218)
Um, well it was that and the fact that I had spent months planning this super epic New Year's Eve trip.

Marie Miller (32:39.306)
It was to DC, it was to go to this huge King Conference, it was gonna be like over the top amazing and he wanted to take her instead of me.

Terrible Scott (32:49.669)
Wait, wait, wait. Yeah, okay, yeah, that was the clarifying question that I was gonna go back to. I thought I heard that. Apparently I did. You lost the battle, you won the war, I think, by getting out. Question though, so I was not raised Catholic.

Producer Dan (32:50.371)
Yeah. You lost the battle.

Marie Miller (32:53.181)
On the vacation that I planned for us.

Marie Miller (33:09.567)
I did.

Terrible Scott (33:17.165)
But I was also, I will say my small town conservative roots were probably at play when I was in my abusive marriage. And I'll start by saying I didn't realize my marriage was abusive for, until it was ending. But I was very much in the head space of you get married once, like you said. And the...

Terrible Scott (33:47.221)
while I didn't know I was being abused, I did feel like I was a caretaker. She weaponized mental health against me and I spent a lot of my time thinking that I was just married to and taking care of a sick woman. And you know, she probably was sick in just in different ways than I realized.

But when I knew that I'd be better off not in that marriage, I had that till death do you apart for better for worse in my head. And in addition to that, there's the shame. Is shame a feeling that you felt about a divorce?

Marie Miller (34:35.994)
Yeah, there was definitely the feeling that I completely failed as a wife. And I also had these weird perceptions, this silly belief that isn't true, that the only reason that a man would cheat is because you are a failure in bed. So I felt really, really bad about who I was as a sexual being because I don't know where I got that belief, but it was really strongly held in me that you have to be epic to keep them from straying.

Terrible Scott (35:06.194)
That doesn't sound uncommon, at least from, I think I could be wrong. And I live in Chicago, you know, we're always voting blue here in Chicago. Um, so my experience might be specific to my location, but I do feel like things are at least changing now that yes, there are.

probably pockets and I'm gonna say it without knowing, but I feel like, you know, the Bible Belt and places like that, that it's more traditional and it is about the woman being able to meet the husband's needs at times. But I don't think that is uncommon, that feeling, but I also, I hope and feel like it's changing.

Terrible Scott (36:01.433)
But what does that feel like for you when you feel that way?

Marie Miller (36:06.414)
I mean, I was pretty crushed. I remember, oh, yeah, that first month was really, really rough because I was also in Cleveland alone, not being from Cleveland, right? My family was down in Columbus and I didn't know anybody, so I had to make a whole new group of friends. Luckily, there was an organization I was involved in, so I had at least some network.

But yeah, it was a lot of things to sort through, like feeling super unworthy, feeling like a failure. And also I had a four year gap in my work history because that was one of our biggest fights because he would always say, I could never get a job that would be, that would even cover the gas to get there was a phrase that he used a lot.

Terrible Scott (36:57.36)
for an abuser that probably was playing out perfectly for him.

Marie Miller (37:05.087)
You really...

Terrible Scott (37:07.037)
I mean, he could hold it over your head.

But also, I mean, you don't have an income. It's not super easy to pick up and go. It's like he owns you at that point.

Marie Miller (37:24.494)
Pretty much. I did. And we had just moved into a brand new apartment. And he also beat me down to not get a lawyer, which I kind of regret giving into that. I ended up writing it during the divorce, which I wrote myself. But I didn't ask for enough. I got the apartment for the year, the computer, and one of the cars. Well, both the cars are in my name, which is a whole other story. But I did keep the better of the two cars, because he never fixed mine like he said he would.

Terrible Scott (37:37.379)
You mean during the divorce?

Producer Dan (37:53.285)
Yeah!

Terrible Scott (37:55.162)
Good. All right. So you took the Maserati, okay, awesome. Not super practical, but you look cool driving it.

Marie Miller (38:03.01)
It was a dodge and trap it, but yeah, instead of my up. I had a cute little, yeah, it's pretty much.

Terrible Scott (38:06.152)
Okay, cool.

Producer Dan (38:07.087)
The Maserati of Cleveland.

Terrible Scott (38:14.293)
I'm not gonna comment, because I know that I alienated our Cincinnati fans one interview. So Cleveland Rocks, I think that's even in a song, or at least on the beginning of the Drew Carey show.

Marie Miller (38:28.958)
It has a really good metal scene. If you like happy metal.

Producer Dan (38:33.275)
Good to know.

Terrible Scott (38:34.629)
I'm on the outskirts of heavy metal. I appreciate it. I always feel like I should like it more than I do. But I don't. I skew a little more on the punk side, but mostly on the folk side. I don't know if punk and folk is a, sounds like a weird conversation, but there's actually a combination, but there's actually a large overlap. And we can talk about that later on a different episode.

Producer Dan (38:59.911)
We're gonna have to have you back a lot.

Marie Miller (39:01.579)
Okay.

Terrible Scott (39:03.745)
All right. And I know that we intro this as non-consensual kink and have told a larger story and that's okay. That's the road we've gone down and I have followed the most. So I hope I'm not disappointing any of the listeners, that we didn't focus a little more on that. But I want to get to the point where...

Things started changing for you. Where the positive part. So you left him, you got the sweet dodge and trap in. You're feeling, are you feeling pretty good about yourself at this point? Or are we talking about a years long rebuild that kind of took to get you back to where you needed to be?

Marie Miller (39:53.67)
Well, within, I would say within like three months later, I started having other support in my life. I actually did start dating, but I picked someone on purpose that I knew I would fall in love with. So when we had a really good arrangement, really good communication, so at least I had some physical attention. And that also helped me feel good. And eventually...

Terrible Scott (40:14.905)
Did you know all the, I just want to ask, did you know all of the trauma you were healing from at the time or did you think it was just divorce that you were healing from?

Marie Miller (40:26.202)
I think by that time I realized how abusive the relationship was, like a few months later, but it took me a long time to unravel all of it. And here's part of it was, like, there was also this other huge layer of guilt because he was not in the kink community until I introduced him to it. Because I used to flog people in goth nightclubs, right? And so like I was super into that community. I love it. And so I would like...

Terrible Scott (40:36.581)
It's hard.

Terrible Scott (40:46.443)
Okay.

Marie Miller (40:54.434)
find people and see if they're into it and like I would introduce them to it. And so I felt like some of the abuse that was going through, cause he was also, when he was doming, he was really abusive, but not in the fun, consensual way. In the like, I'm gonna be mean to you and call you whatever I want. And like, there was no talk beforehand about what he was going to do to me or what he was gonna say. And so he was basically one of those guys who thinks, oh, I'm the dom, I get to abuse people. And so there was...

Terrible Scott (41:16.153)
Right.

Terrible Scott (41:21.78)
Yeah, and.

Marie Miller (41:23.11)
layers of guilt to release on that thinking it was my fault because I taught him how to be in that community.

Terrible Scott (41:29.565)
Yeah, and I can imagine that there's a lot of questioning of yourself at that point. And I think that's what you just said.

Terrible Scott (41:42.321)
And from the people not familiar with the kink community, I don't know how to say or ask what I'm going to ask, but really when we're talking, you said a dom and it was more abusive than fun. But my understanding, my limited understanding of the kink community and...

The world at large is, it is about consent. Have your fun, but do it in a way that's safe and considers everybody's wants, needs and safety, right?

Marie Miller (42:28.906)
Right. And I think the biggest misperception people have is that honestly, the sub is the one who's in charge. When you're doing it correctly, or not correctly, when you're doing it safely, when you're doing it really consensually, it's really all about what's the experience the sub wants and then matching that with what the dom wants, but in a way that you're both agreeing to everything.

Terrible Scott (42:50.861)
Yeah.

Terrible Scott (42:54.329)
Do you think, I know we got to the positive part of the story, but I do want to ask a question about that. Do you think he knew that it wasn't as fun, it wasn't what you were looking for, the way he was doing it?

Marie Miller (43:13.4)
I think he might have thought that it was fun, but also there was a lot of times where it felt like it didn't actually care what I thought.

Terrible Scott (43:20.717)
Well, and you know, with a lot of forms of sexual assault, it's often about power and control. Is that what, was that your feeling that he got off on his power and control?

Marie Miller (43:34.378)
Yeah, pretty much. He just needed to, because he needed to control everything.

Terrible Scott (43:37.901)
Yeah. Well, that fucking Tom Cruise guy, I'll tell you what.

Marie Miller (43:40.76)
I mean.

He wouldn't even try to control what I said to other people. Like, we're looking for an apartment. He's like, call the guy and tell him this is this. And I'm like, no, I'm not doing that.

Terrible Scott (43:50.249)
Yeah. All right. So you're out of it. It takes you a few months, but you said that you found support and you mentioned dating someone. But was is that who you're considering the support or was it OK?

Marie Miller (43:54.767)
No.

Marie Miller (44:04.93)
No, there was a community I volunteered with, so every Monday I had a place to be, so I was being held accountable. And so I mean, I love doing volunteer work by the way, and I love being on the support staff of things. Like if I go to a festival, I'd rather be running a booth. Well, that stabilizes me to be of service a lot. And so I was able to be of service with this group and I learned a lot through it, and there's a good supporting community.

Terrible Scott (44:20.715)
Not me, but awesome for you.

Terrible Scott (44:26.386)
Yeah.

Marie Miller (44:32.202)
And then through that, I got hooked into, I started doing promotional work for psychic fairs. So I got some healing from hanging out with the psychics. And then through one of them, I finally got a decent job because it's really hard to get a job with a four-year gap in your work history and tell people that you were a housewife and they kind of laugh at you and say, you don't need the job and send you on your way. And they give it to somebody I think is more deserving, but that's another story. Yeah, I have a lot.

Terrible Scott (44:53.829)
Sure, yeah.

Marie Miller (44:59.614)
And eventually through that job I got, I finally got to move to California, which was one of my dreams, and get back into theater. And that's actually where a lot of the healing happened.

Terrible Scott (44:59.665)
Yeah

Terrible Scott (45:10.425)
Okay. You ran away and joined the circus, I get it. Okay. See? When you say that you, so you, I mean, I mentioned community a lot on here. So you built or found your community in California. Did you have anyone, therapists, best friend, anyone who?

Marie Miller (45:15.575)
I did.

Terrible Scott (45:39.373)
Did a lot of the heavy work with you or was it just kind of moving on and growing?

Marie Miller (45:46.186)
Um, yeah, there were a few friends, but the majority of the healing actually came a few years later, because I did the best I could to put myself together. But when I started studying Theta Healing and taking those classes and becoming a teacher in that, that's actually what moved the majority of the emotions and beliefs out of me and brought the most healing.

Terrible Scott (46:08.301)
I'm gonna say a disclaimer here that Dan and I interview a lot of people who have a lot of different strategies for their mental health. Theta healing, is that the term that you used? Okay. As I say, not something I'm familiar with. So, and part of my disclaimer, Marie, was going to be, I don't always believe in everything our guests talk about other than the fact that

Marie Miller (46:21.42)
It is.

Producer Dan (46:23.279)
Tell us about that.

Terrible Scott (46:35.241)
If it works for you, I'm fucking supporting it. So Theta healing sounds like something that's a little different than what I'm used to. It might not be, but I want to hear about it. And I want to, uh, maybe not fully educate our listeners on this, but, uh, kind of give us a little bit about what that is.

Marie Miller (46:39.21)
I'm going to go to bed.

Marie Miller (46:55.458)
Well, it's an alternative healing modality and it does not replace traditional therapy and it doesn't replace medicine, first of all. It is something in addition to those things. So a lot of my clients, when they have something serious, I'm like, please make sure you're actually seeing like a clinical psychologist or having that other support system. And so what it is, it's just based on the premise that your belief system creates what's going on in your life and creates your body.

Terrible Scott (47:01.925)
Okay.

Marie Miller (47:22.994)
And so we sit down and we have like a long conversation, putting people into a theta brain wave, which is like hypnosis. So they can go a little bit deeper and access parts that they've forgotten and be able to release something that some shit that somebody said to you when you were five that pissed you off in the moment and kind of got stuck. And you don't think about it consciously, but it's in the back of your mind, kind of like bouncing around like, oh my God, I'm stupid, I'm stupid, I'm stupid. And releasing that, because that'll unplug a lot of other things.

So it's basically releasing this background noise in your brain that you're not consciously aware of.

Terrible Scott (47:58.329)
That sounds interesting.

Producer Dan (48:00.975)
sounds totally useful. I've got some shit that I could unbounce in my brain, I'm sure

Terrible Scott (48:06.974)
Right. And I'm sorry, I was trying to absorb all of that. Did I hear hypnosis? What was that?

Marie Miller (48:16.798)
It overlaps with hypnosis in that we put people or we work from a theta brainwave. So that's the same brainwave you're in when you're in REM sleep.

Terrible Scott (48:26.661)
Okay, okay. So how long did you do this?

Marie Miller (48:34.294)
Well, I'm actually a teacher now and that's still my business. It's like, that's what I do. I teach it all day long because it's super fun. I'm really passionate about it. But the biggest healing with this relationship or with, because there was other abusers later on, but that's all those other stories, is I realized the reason I kept getting myself into these relationships, even though I know better, was I was carrying this subconscious belief that love was going to kill me.

Terrible Scott (48:42.255)
Yeah.

Marie Miller (49:02.982)
and that belief was trying to prove itself right. And once I released that, my whole relationship to relationships changed.

Terrible Scott (49:11.481)
Well, I'm glad that happened for you. And I'm glad you released it. And earlier, I do want to clarify, I'm not sure the words I used, but I think I said that I don't always believe in everything that I hear. But I want to make it clear that I am supportive of the different strategies that help people, Marie. And the biggest thing to me is

If that strategy works for someone, it worked. It is wonderful. And when I say don't believe, I shouldn't say believe, I should say understand. And it's not for everyone, I'm guessing, but what is your teaching like? What, and I'm sorry, is that the word you use, teacher or coach, or what's the word to describe? Okay.

Marie Miller (50:00.782)
It's not.

Marie Miller (50:10.449)
I'm a teacher. I love to do lectures and I love to expand people's minds and it's fun. But you're right, it's not for everyone and that's okay.

Terrible Scott (50:14.821)
All right. Okay. And yeah, absolutely. Okay. And I know that there's a lot of things that would probably be good for me if I open my mind up to them a little bit. So what is what is the experience like when you are seeing?

What's the word? I'm practitioner, theta healer. Well, I mean, on the end of the person delivering this, how do we refer to a theta healer?

Marie Miller (50:43.44)
Bye.

Marie Miller (50:52.714)
a theta healing practitioner.

Terrible Scott (50:54.409)
Okay, practitioner, cool. What would the experience be like if someone were to go to one of those?

Marie Miller (51:03.574)
I mean, the first thing I do is I ask people, do you even know what I do? Because I get a lot of referrals from people who are just like, work with Marie, she'll help you. But their friend never tells them what I do. So I do a quick lesson like I told you. And then, because there is a spiritual woo side to this too. So we do, before we get into the conversation, I actually check people's energy for basically, are they absorbing energy from other people and helping them release that? And making sure that there's no entities like ghosts or anything attached to them.

Terrible Scott (51:13.425)
Okay.

Marie Miller (51:33.53)
And then we get into what do you want to work on today? And then once they explain, I'll do a scan of their body to see how their energy is around that topic to understand which questions to ask. And then I'll walk them through a meditation. And what we're looking for is, because I know in therapy, people can kind of go down the same road. So we're looking for the answers that you're not giving your therapist, is one way to phrase it.

So we basically all have a series of questions and we're trying to get to a certain period in time, like before you were seven years old generally. And just have them relax. And I say, I want you to say the first thing that comes to your mind, especially if it doesn't make any sense. And then we kind of follow these different emotional threads that are very not logical.

Right? Because we're not trying to use our brain. We're trying to understand where the trauma is in the body. Because from the theta perspective, we're not following a logical series of events. We're following an emotional thread. And so we're trying to figure out, like, what was that thing that happened when you were three or whatever? And so it's a very non-linear process, which is what's fun about it for me.

Terrible Scott (52:51.041)
Yeah, that sounds, I have got, again, so many questions, Marie, and we are really low on time at this point. How would someone find you if they wanted to, is this something you do online or in person, or how does that work?

Marie Miller (53:11.694)
I do it online. And my business name is House of Kellan, and that's K-E-L-L-E-N.

Terrible Scott (53:20.796)
and we will link to it.

Marie Miller (53:20.85)
And so, yep, and that's.com, Instagram, TikTok. TikTok's more of my kink stuff, that was an educator. And then Facebook, so, yep.

Terrible Scott (53:31.225)
So at this point of your life, how would you describe it?

Marie Miller (53:35.782)
It's pretty freaking amazing. I mean, I've got this man who loves me and is truly kind and accepting in a way that I've never felt before. I've got the most adorable kitty. I've got a cute house. I'm befriending a bunch of pros. So yeah, life is good.

Terrible Scott (53:38.145)
Hell yes!

Terrible Scott (53:52.133)
Oh my God. I love Crow TikTok. I love Crow Talk. Uh, so, and, and for the listeners who are not on Crow TikTok, what are you doing to befriend the crows?

Marie Miller (54:09.506)
Well, I need to find the more shiny things, but they've been getting like so many peanuts. So I have like a special feeder for them. So I'm putting food out for them every day. And I also go into a meditation and try to like send them love and let them know that I'm here to see if we can, you know, do some hippie communication with them.

Terrible Scott (54:26.311)
Hell yeah. And have they brought you any gifts yet? Okay. So Dan, Dan's making faces. I don't think he's familiar with crow tic-tac.

Marie Miller (54:29.278)
Not yet.

Producer Dan (54:34.151)
Oh, I'm familiar with crow TikTok. I'm making faces cause I don't have enough crows in my neighborhood to be friend. They only show up once in a while. And like getting a fight with some squirrels.

Terrible Scott (54:36.565)
Oh, oh!

Terrible Scott (54:40.66)
They're

Terrible Scott (54:43.925)
They live, there's a pack, a murder, a murder. It's a murder of crows. There is a murder of crows that in the fall, in the spring, I mean, it was two blocks away. I don't know if they're not migratory birds, are they? You know what, this is not about crows. I could, I love birds, okay? I've told people in the, when I was, before the pandemic, I would say to people,

that I can't wait until I'm old enough to be a birder and not be embarrassed by it. And then the pandemic happened and I think younger people started birding a little bit, but I fucking love birds. Are you a crow person or a bird person, Murray?

Marie Miller (55:28.662)
Well, my favorite bird is the Eurasian eagle owl. So I am a big bird too.

Terrible Scott (55:32.289)
Got a favorite bird? Yes, you are my people.

Terrible Scott (55:38.069)
Okay, I'm sorry. I'm going to Google this later. I'm probably going to put up TikToks and everything else on our social media about crows and Eurasian. What kind of eat?

Marie Miller (55:49.762)
It's called a Eurasian Eagle Owl. They're like, they're big, they're huge. I've met some great ones. There's an animal, there's a rescue organization here in Ohio that goes to Ren Fair that has one named Bilbo who's amazing. And if you give them money, they let you hold them. And then I met another one named Henrietta in Edinburgh one day, and that was just an amazing thing too. So I remember all the names of every Eurasian Eagle Owl I've met.

Terrible Scott (55:54.393)
Yeah.

Producer Dan (56:14.407)
That's awesome.

Terrible Scott (56:14.679)
I

I love it, I love it. I've got more questions that I'm not going to ask about the eagles, I'm sorry, eagles, owls. What did you say? Ha ha ha.

Marie Miller (56:28.338)
It's an owl, it's a type of an owl. But it's a huge scary looking owl with beautiful eyes.

Terrible Scott (56:34.465)
man, I love birds of prey. I love owls. I love crows. I love a just bring me all the birds. And I, I'm risking losing our listeners right now because I not only are we talking about birds, but it's not even like they're on this. The this is an audio format, right? We're not showing them the birds, we don't have pictures. So we're losing people here. But freaking awesome.

Producer Dan (56:54.44)
Hehehehe

Terrible Scott (57:03.473)
amazing. I don't know. I don't remember if you think it's an amazing for your life today. But they but also I don't know how to wrap this up. I just want to say that that's fucking amazing. I love the point that we get to the awesome lives and get to laugh a little bit, Marie. And I do want to just reiterate one last time that again, the theta healing doesn't sound like something I'm going to be booking a session with you for, Marie.

But I am very much in support of the type of work you're doing, the focusing, not focusing on mental health, allowing others to focus on their mental health. And if it works, I am all for it. It sounds like that type of stuff has worked for you and you are an absolutely wonderful person, a decent fucking human, an amazing guest.

Marie, thank you so much for coming on today.

Marie Miller (58:04.014)
Thank you so much. It's been an absolute blast.

Terrible Scott (58:06.901)
Yeah, for sure. And we're going to share all of your social media website, whatever you want us to send us that we will get it up when we share the episode. I'm sorry, I'm having computer problems. Can you see that my monitor is turning off? Sometimes people tell me that they like the they can see that my face. You know what? Again, this is an audio format. I'm going to shut the fuck up for just a second about my visual problems. But Marie, it's been wonderful.

Marie Miller (58:22.914)
Yeah.

Terrible Scott (58:37.041)
I'm grateful, humbled, honored. I loved our conversation today. I hope this isn't our last conversation ever, even if it's not on the internet and not released to our listeners, because you're an amazing person. Thank you for coming on. Um, yeah. And for our listeners, remember to follow us. Please follow us at positively terrible on social media.

Marie Miller (58:54.446)
Thank you.

Terrible Scott (59:06.337)
If you want to tell us anything, you can send us an email, podcast at positivelyterrible.com. This has been a wonderful interview. I hope you've enjoyed it. And as always, this has been absolutely positively terrible.