00:01.12
danmetiv
Yes, you're tuned into positively terrible I'm producer Dan and each week my buddy Scott and I discuss surviving and thriving after trauma. It's a journey that started when Scott his wife's fiance and her boyfriend walked into a bar. This week's decent human being is Darlene. She's got a fucked up story about how trauma holds us back settle in my terrible listeners today's episode is going to be positively terrible. Hey Scott man I'm doing all right I've got gout and my toe hurts. But other than that.

00:29.63
Terrible Scott
Ah, Dan how are you doing today.

00:37.64
Terrible Scott
Oh no, oh no gout in the toe. So I recently met someone with gout in his knee and ah he very well might be a listener if not I'll make sure that he listens to this one to he gets a shout out shout out for having terrible gout in his knee.

00:38.80
danmetiv
I'm doing okay.

00:43.41
danmetiv
Brutal.

00:53.87
Terrible Scott
And not being able to walk I've had gout in my toe. Ah also and it's a pretty miserable fucking thing. That's a that's an episode in itself. Ah, Darlene's here I hope darlene have you ever had the gout. Oh is that a personal question.

01:05.10
Darlene
Not not to my knowledge not to my fault is personal. Not my knowledge have I had it.

01:11.53
Terrible Scott
Ah, okay, well good I I would not wish that upon you if if I don't know if you've had been close to someone who has had gout but the first time I got it I could not sleep because every time the sheet brushed my toe. It fucking woke me up in excruciating pain. It is the weirdest thing.

01:29.56
danmetiv
Yeah, and it makes you feel like a real big pansy because you're toe hurts and you like the you can't even have the sheet touch it. It's It's really embarrassing.

01:40.90
Terrible Scott
Yeah, you sleep like yeah I remember walking from like our little my little office area to my bedroom and sitting down in the hallway floor in the middle of that walk like I just can't do this I just gave up. Um. Luckily I've only had it twice but this is not the gout show. This is positively terrible and we've got darlene here today. Darlene. What are you here to talk about.

02:03.90
Darlene
Um, I'm here to talk about how my trauma has held me back.

02:06.66
Terrible Scott
Okay, and and why don't We tell the listeners just what a little bit about what that trauma is.

02:13.13
Darlene
Well in my master's program which I had been wanting to be in for many years when I finally got in I ended up having a professor that caused me quite a bit of trauma and I needed to file a human rights.

02:29.93
Terrible Scott
Um.

02:32.53
Darlene
Complaint against her.

02:34.23
Terrible Scott
Ouch, so that's that is I don't know anything about the story other than it sounds like it is qualifies as a fucked up story and thank you for coming to share today. Um, but really quickly before we get into. Your story. We're going to do the usual and I'm going to start begging soon for people to get this decent fucking quit shaking your head every time Dan it's I swear to you people are going to get this I am darlene I am offering to pay for people to get tattooed upon their body.

03:04.79
danmetiv
Um.

03:09.55
Terrible Scott
The words decent fucking human and for those who are a little less comfortable with having swear words on their body we can do dfh as well. Ah, we're we're doing I'm I'm paying up to 5 people to get it I have interest you know getting a tattoo is something that takes a little bit of. Ah, at work you think about at least for me I think about it I it takes me forever to do it so I will pay for it for people so we're going to get it. We're going to get there dan.

03:37.92
danmetiv
I Think that there is nothing more boring than talking about the tattoos that you're going to get nobody cares and nobody's gotten this one.

03:45.31
Terrible Scott
Um, well I I'm.

03:49.49
danmetiv
So when you have someone who's gotten the tattoo I would love to talk about it. But Jesus Christ I am born of talking about tattoos that haven't been gotten.

03:51.81
Terrible Scott
You it? No no, it's it's you've no and noticed that it's moved up to the first thing that I'm bringing up in our housekeeping because it's the most important thing that that that's all right? and then.

04:00.45
danmetiv
Yeah I can't wait to tell you about the panther that I want to get on my back. It's going to be huge and it's going to be ripping out of my flesh. It's going to be so awesome.

04:11.35
Terrible Scott
You do that and we can put pictures on the the Instagram and we will ok all right moving on moving on. Ah, we also are so always open looking for guests.

04:14.66
danmetiv
Yep, we're going to do it at the top of every show I'm going to tell you about all the details about my panther ta to.

04:25.56
Terrible Scott
Ah, we've got quite a few cool ones lined up right now. So feeling pretty good about the guest list especially Darlene here today. Ah but but I but I absolutely you know encourage you if you've got stories to tell if you've got friends with stories send us an email podcast at positively terrible dot com.

04:31.95
danmetiv
Definitely.

04:42.68
Terrible Scott
Or hit us up on Instagram or through Facebook um, both of those were at positively terrible so we are easy to find and of course find us on all of the podcast platforms I just felt like saying that if you're listening already I know you've already found us. But anyway darlene. Okay. You are here to talk about. Ah so I don't even know how how to kind of wrap this up into a sentence I mean you already did but you had a very ah I'll say I'll start by saying unusual and traumatic experience. It sounds like so. Tell us a little bit ah about you you you said that this was in your master's program. Um, what were you? Ah what? what career were you going after or what what education were you pursuing at this point.

05:31.44
Darlene
Well ironically enough it's ah it was masters in in social work.

05:35.16
Terrible Scott
Okay, so were you already doing some social work.

05:40.30
Darlene
Yeah, so I have ah a bachelor of arts and a bachelor of social work and it's a master of social work and it's ah also in in an anti oppressive anti-colonial field so you would think that folks would be.

05:56.56
Darlene
Nicer on better behavior. However, you want say that but it's not generally the case and and the same thing with social workers. We would hope that social workers would abide by the social work code of ethics and that's not that's not always happening.

05:58.55
Terrible Scott
Ah.

06:05.17
Terrible Scott
Follow m. Okay, and I'm sorry I got totally distracted I don't know if you guys could hear my phone ringing I have the I have it on mute but it was coming still coming through the Bluetooth speaker that was connected to so.

06:24.59
danmetiv
Yeah I read on Reddit that you're supposed to silence those things before you start a podcast.

06:29.79
Terrible Scott
I I I said I have it on mute. But I don't know why it just rang. Yeah I mean it. It's it's keeping the streak going. So um, yes, yes, yes, actually.

06:33.82
Darlene
Um.

06:35.87
danmetiv
Darlene I'm sorry this episode's going to suck and it's not your fault you.

06:42.67
Darlene
Um, yeah, have to get the tattoo to remind me of this day.

06:48.69
Terrible Scott
So back to the tattoo since we've brought it back around. No no well. Ah my my plan is to get it next month and and and a one of our listeners.

06:49.99
Darlene
Please you have? what do you have one of these tattoos Scott.

06:53.23
danmetiv
Ah.

06:56.11
danmetiv
Not even Scott's gotten one. But.

07:06.80
Terrible Scott
Keep saying I can't wait to do this when can we do this so we're going to go together next month. So we're gonna have to anyway. Um we are 7 minutes in and we spent 4 of them talking about a tattoo and we can do that the rest of the time. Ah, but I don't want Mike to send us text saying that we're 12 minutes in and he's not Ah, sure where we're going with this yet because that's what a friend and former guest does Darlene. He's a very very wonderful guy. Um, ok so you um.

07:38.84
Terrible Scott
You said oppress how did you put that oppressive human What? what? What exactly did you say? ok ok and how do you choose that? ok.

07:42.29
Darlene
So It's a master of social work and it's in ah, a discipline that is anti-colonial and antiapressive. Because those are my values. So My my first degree So I My first degree my bachelor of arts is in women's studies and native studies. So You know all of my studies have been around anti-oppression and um.

08:00.50
Terrible Scott
Okay.

08:08.75
Darlene
You know, combating systemic injustice and and advocacy and Activism. So I chose this specific program and had been in the works for about a decade and I had worried about doing the regular master in social work because the bachelor is very. Um, colonial and it's not my politics. It's not my values and I worried about the things that would come up in the quality of the articles and the instruction because I did my bachelor of social work and I struggled with.

08:28.82
Terrible Scott
Okay.

08:48.20
Darlene
A lot of the curriculum due to what it was about and how it was taught to us so when this program came out I was in the third cohort. So again it was you know in the works for about 10 years and I had been looking at different programs all around so this is.

08:53.80
Terrible Scott
So.

09:07.56
Darlene
All 3 of my degrees are from my home university here where I am.

09:08.68
Terrible Scott
Okay, okay, and oh good.

09:11.51
danmetiv
And yeah, where's that.

09:14.74
Darlene
In Manitoba.

09:17.65
danmetiv
I Heard the Aboots I did.

09:22.23
Darlene
Um, hope you didn't.

09:23.57
Terrible Scott
Ah, ah I'm staying out of this one I am absolutely staying out of this one? Um, okay so um.

09:37.30
Terrible Scott
What I heard that I I liked and and I'm just going to just say this really quickly is that Dan and I shared a therapist I I recently graduated so I'm not in my therapy anymore. Ah, but he speaks a lot about living to your values. So the idea that. You've had the opportunity to pursue I shouldn't say the opportunity what I should say is the awareness to pursue something that is in line with your values is kind of an amazing thing because a lot of us. Never even think of life in that way or live that intentionally. So was that? Ah so that was the plan from the start then but I mean did you when did you start your ah pursuit of higher education was it right? after high school.

10:26.34
Darlene
No I've always had a really shitty relationship with school. So I walk with a dad who is an alcoholic and so I I grew up with some childhood. Um.

10:29.37
Terrible Scott
Okay.

10:38.89
Darlene
Experiences and Traumas that carried with me throughout my years which would then of course sometimes I should say of course but sometimes then bleed into our adult relationships If we're not being careful and with and if we're not.

10:51.85
Terrible Scott
M.

10:57.97
Darlene
Being intentional then though it can bleed in and we can get into these same patterns that we have in the past. So when I was a teenager like I had dropped out of school So many times that I had finally gone back to School. Um. When I was 20 just to do my mature. My mature um mature student degree. So I had to for 4 credits at that time and I Yeah yeah. Yeah.

11:20.77
Terrible Scott
Okay, okay, is it a.

11:24.10
danmetiv
Is that essentially like getting your high school like finishing high school in your twenty s got it.

11:30.99
Darlene
So I I had my daughter when I was 18 and I figured now I have to go to school Now. No more fucking around and so I did and then I started working after I graduated so again that was 20 and then University was never on the. Table for me I wasn't really even though it was it was talked about in my family. It wasn't really valued in the same way and I think it well I know because I was such a wild child that my parents and the adults around me.

11:56.80
Terrible Scott
Um.

12:06.76
Darlene
Didn't talk about postsecondary with me because it was just you you wouldn't have thought that I would have gone so at some point I was working paycheck to paycheck I had this daughter she was about six years old and I was like.

12:12.50
Terrible Scott
And he.

12:21.49
Darlene
How am I going to get more money. How am I going to get more money I need to get more money I can't live paycheck to paycheck and I was like I'll go to school. It was just like that I'm going to go and get a degree so I can get paid more.. It wasn't about learning anything. It wasn't about you know. Having ah choosing the proper career because I didn't even think about things like that it was about getting a degree and getting paid more. So then I had to actually choose what I was going to be or what I was going to do what classes I was going to take for which degree and.

12:39.55
Terrible Scott
Right.

12:48.95
Terrible Scott
You.

12:56.15
Darlene
I had looked at social work at that time. So at this point now I was 25 because I didn't have all those credits from high school and you know a very high gpa I I was a mature student I applied as a mature student for universities. So I could still get in but also I'm here in Canada so Canada is a little It's quite a bit different than the states for university college where you have to be You're very It's very competitive in the states where we apply and we get in That's how it works and to certain fields and I was going in for a general degree. So.

13:15.30
Terrible Scott
Me.

13:23.93
Terrible Scott
Go.

13:31.16
Darlene
Ah, you apply and if you meet the basic qualifications you're in and so I had looked at social work and I thought oh I don't want to be a social worker even though it was in it. It was somewhat what I was doing Anyway, you know talking to people listening to people. Being there for people wanting to support people and I thought I don't want to that's right? and and I thought I didn't want to do that because there's a high rate of burnout people who are supporting people like how do they do it all the time. It's exhausting and I thought I'm not doing it. So.

13:51.10
Terrible Scott
You mean per in your personal life. You mean? okay.

14:10.90
Darlene
In my university we apply for just we we start applying for courses. We just register for courses and then we um, we can choose based like based on or we can choose after we have thirty credit hours so a full year of school.

14:26.92
Terrible Scott
Okay, okay.

14:29.71
Darlene
And while I was looking at programs I wanted to go into this program called recreation studies. So it's in the faculty of what's the map physette. Maybe that's the faculty. It's with kinesiology rec studies. They do like.

14:43.65
Terrible Scott
Okay, got it.

14:48.60
Darlene
And event management or sports management and whatnot and I thought that would be a really great career and be quite a bit of fun. So I took some introductory to introductory courses. The two courses I could take before being in that faculty. So then after.

15:01.79
Terrible Scott
E.

15:04.51
Darlene
Do our first thirty credit hours then we have to declare. What are you know which faculty we want to go into and whatnot or department if it's a bachelor of arts or science. So um I ended up finding or going to a women studies course. Somebody I knew I didn't know people who really went to university I didn't I didn't know this world and so I met this person I was I was volunteering on the crisis lines like I was on I was volunteering with um suicide crisis lines at the time.

15:29.18
Terrible Scott
Yeah.

15:40.22
Darlene
And we had a ah community binder that we would go through every week so we had you know the binder of the the folks who would be calling in so we could see what the issues are if they had called on our shift and whatnot and then we had another one so you know telling us about community events and. And different things going on and in there there was someone who had put a call out for her. Um, master's thesis. She was doing this. Um she was she was doing a program and i.

16:01.67
Terrible Scott
And.

16:12.55
Darlene
Applied and I got in and I did that with her and she had told me she was the only person to my knowledge who I knew who was doing a master's at the time and at that time in my life I mean and um I ended up or she ended up telling me about. This amazing instructor in a women studies course or in in the women studies department teaching this womens studies course and so she I I just jumped on it because I didn't have anybody to tell me what to do in university I didn't have anybody to to guide me along. And so I went into that core or I didn't get into that course because it wasn't being offered anymore and that instructor that professor was actually moving to another university and so I just took another Wednesday's course and it changed my life and that's and then I ended up going that route. So. Um, that's when I started learning about anti-oppression systemic injustice and you know, colonialism and colonial patriarchy and everything that oppresses us. So um, that's how I I just stumbled upon it somebody's like take this course and.

17:23.17
Terrible Scott
Yeah, yeah.

17:25.68
Darlene
It ended up being you know the trajectory trajectory of my whole life even now a feminist coaching with women and I'm.

17:30.46
Terrible Scott
Um, yeah, Well so I well I have to ask you know I and I don't want to make assumptions. But I am a little bit. Um, you know this was introduced to in in college. But you said you grew up with like an an alcoholic father um were these was this type of Education. Um, something that your your family growing up that they would have believed in or. Was this all kind of new to you This value set.

18:04.90
Darlene
Yeah, the latter for sure so I was always my whole life. You know I was always um, poked at for not being you know, not being a traditional woman in the way where. I wasn't interested in um, lot of family events I wasn't interested in helping my mom cook Christmas dinner I don't think I've ever cooked 1 of them I actually I remember cooking 1 or in my early 20 s along with somebody else. But I've never cooked.

18:30.50
Terrible Scott
Um.

18:39.70
Darlene
1 ever since and never on my own I don't even know how and I think I may have just put a ham in the oven at that point even like I didn't make a turkey is traditional and so.

18:49.54
Terrible Scott
Yeah, right.

18:54.42
Darlene
Same with like Thanksgiving or Easter like I don't know what the hell to do can we just like order tacos or something like so.

18:59.67
Terrible Scott
Right.

18:59.86
danmetiv
I I would say that a ham in the oven and tacos make a phenomenal holiday meal and you're not doing anything that's not phenomenal I Just want to point that out.

19:12.32
Terrible Scott
I Guess I I don't know where I I was going to get on the app and look for tacos and ham for lunch but I don't know I don't know if there's a tacos in the ham restaurant nearby but it it sounds like you're doing all right to me and what I will say is if you ever have a holiday where you need. Plans to like not do anything I am your guy I I I am not the oh God that their work. It's work and I that I don't want to do and I'm having guests over this evening and I'm kind of dreading that already and luckily look look.

19:47.50
danmetiv
Man Get a ham put in the oven. You'll be set. Ah.

19:49.75
Terrible Scott
Luckily they won't hear this until after the you know they won't know that I'm dreading having people over until after ah they they come and go. But anyway yes that I mean there is a very good chance I said something earlier about making sausages and you know throwing some stuff on the grill tonight but that doesn't.

19:55.37
Darlene
So your order cocos.

20:08.72
Terrible Scott
Now I'm going to order something. Yeah yeah, oh oh I can the the look of empathy in your eyes right now I I mean I see that you feel this to your core and I you are enabling me to be lazy tonight though. So thank you for that.

20:08.73
Darlene
Yeah, that sounds like a lot of work final real getting sausages snack there.

20:28.58
Terrible Scott
Which also is enabling me to have more fun at my own little gathering.

20:30.18
Darlene
Right? So it's not being lazy. It's actually working with your true self really honoring what you need and what you can do and not doing what society tells us what we should be doing.

20:35.58
danmetiv
Line 2

20:43.76
Terrible Scott
Exactly.

20:46.78
danmetiv
And what's the point of a party you want to get together with people that you like have a good time. What's a good time required like places to sit things to eat conversation if ah and drinks if that's how is something to drink.

20:50.10
Terrible Scott
M.

21:00.85
Terrible Scott
Right.

21:03.16
danmetiv
And if you can get those 4 things done you win. You don't have to do it on China plates. You don't have to spend 12 hours in the kitchen to accomplish those 4 things.

21:11.67
Terrible Scott
Yeah I wasn't going to do any of that.

21:13.53
Darlene
12 hours 12 hours in the kitchen for 12 minutes of eating.

21:16.99
danmetiv
Right.

21:17.13
Terrible Scott
Yeah I well I just so everyone's clear I wasn't planning on doing 12 hours in the kitchen today. Um, but I am planning on enjoying some some low key hangs at my house tonight without any cooking. So.

21:33.27
Darlene
And here.

21:35.29
Terrible Scott
Ah, now that we got that out of the way the the we we keep getting sidetracked by the important stuff. Um, but um, so where were we we talked to we were talking about a little bit about your values and growing up and how you didn't weren't necessarily consider like the traditional kind of. Girl woman. Um, and that means so when you kind of got oh go Ahead. Bring you say something? How yeah.

21:56.70
Darlene
Yeah I wasn't compliant I've never been compliant and that was a problem for my parents who wanted me to be compliant and of course for an alcoholic father who wants everything their way all the time and he was quite abusive.

22:11.82
Terrible Scott
And.

22:15.12
Darlene
And so you know my mom living in that she yeah I can imagine the things just seeing it now looking at what it was like then she's just trying to keep the piece and go with the flow wants me to also comply so I'm the problem because.

22:28.12
Terrible Scott
Yeah, yeah.

22:34.55
Darlene
She's not aware of patriarchy. She's not aware that this is a problem bigger than me and that he's the problem in the patriarchy is the problem because it's so oppressive exactly.

22:41.40
Terrible Scott
Yeah, and and and she's trying to survive at that point right? and and I'm sure you you had your own ways to survive as well. Um, but maybe not in that little box that would have made her life easier and and maybe even your life easier to some extent. Um, so so it it sounds like in in even you know you said that there wasn't talk of University um.

23:03.70
Darlene
Yeah, probably.

23:17.40
Terrible Scott
Was that because like you said I think you referred yourself even as a wild child or something to that effect was was education not as important to to your parents or was it really that. It didn't seem like that was something you were cut out for at least from their perspective.

23:39.70
Darlene
Ah I would say that like I remember my mom having um bank accounts like small bank accounts. Not a lot of money because she didn't have lots of money but I remember her having small bank accounts for me and my brother.

23:48.20
Terrible Scott
And.

23:55.72
Darlene
For postsecondary in some way and she so my my dad's born in 46 and my mom's born in 48 so of course times were quite a bit different and they didn't come from families that went that sought out.

23:56.99
Terrible Scott
Okay.

24:06.78
Terrible Scott
Yeah.

24:14.14
Darlene
Postsecondary. So after my mom graduated the canadian government or the Manitoba government ah was um, encouraging people to become teachers and so they were paying for people to go to school to do a teaching certificate. And I believe it was a year long. So my mom did that in I think about 68 in about 1968 and then she was a a teacher and my dad was a handy person. He worked at cn on the trains his dad worked at cn like their whole career. His brother.

24:30.16
Terrible Scott
Um.

24:49.15
Darlene
Also worked at Cn so they did labor type work. Um in I mean this is industrialization right? like this is the industrial times and um, so they had very good pain jobs.

24:54.19
Terrible Scott
Oop.

25:05.81
Darlene
Without postsecondary. So my dad didn't even I don't I don't even think that he finished grade 10 which was very and back then so my mom did graduate my dad um my dad didn't.

25:11.60
Terrible Scott
Okay, okay.

25:21.41
Darlene
She did that teaching certificate and then later on in the 80 s um she went back to school she did night school to do her bachelor of arts so they didn't so now you have to do ah a bachelor of arts and pick a teachable for for um.

25:40.29
Terrible Scott
Okay.

25:40.85
Darlene
For a major and then you can go on and do the second degree which is a bachelor of education. But back in the 80 s she didn't have to do that but they were paying more if somebody had a university degree so she would so she went back to school when we were young and um. Did it part time at night just to get her bachelor of arts so she could get paid more when she worked but it so she was the first one to get a university degree but it still wasn't valued and it wasn't that that's not the way we were brought up. So kind of the same reason I did it at first you know just I paid more.

26:20.97
Terrible Scott
Right? Yeah and and and look I mean there's something to say for that right? I mean you you look for ways to to to make more to change your life in college. Ah. Has been one of those historically much harder today than it was twenty thirty forty years ago because it costs so much. Um, at least I you know and I don't know what this situation is in Canada but in the us it's it's kind of gross right now and I will admit to the fact. That I've probably paid more than I borrowed for my student loans and still owe at least as much as I borrowed for my student loans because for what you know when I first came out um I was they were sending me bills for $800 a month and.

27:01.16
Darlene
So offer.

27:13.74
Terrible Scott
I was making next to nothing and so I just tried to get as low a payment as I could which didn't even Cover. You know the interest at the time so it grew and grew and it's It's kind of disgusting So That's not always the way to make more money today. Ah but. For your mom. It sounds like she made the decision that was right for her made it specifically for financial reasons which is okay, eventually you grow up, you get your life. So Did you feel like you're getting your life back on track then or did you feel like it was already on track when you were starting. Yeah University Um, because that it sounds like you had to eat a child young and.

27:56.15
Darlene
Yeah I don't I I I don't think I had I don't think I realized anything at that age I don't think I was you know aware enough to even to even be able to think I had my life on track. Um.

28:09.57
Terrible Scott
Okay.

28:13.00
Darlene
So when I was young I was in in grade six I was diagnosed with Adhd so I had been I I you know I misbehaved in school and so they they they tested us and and whatnot I didn't even know that I was being tested and I didn't know that it came back as Adhd.

28:17.66
Terrible Scott
Okay.

28:32.78
Darlene
Until 1 time when I was kicked out of a school. The first time I was kicked out of school in grade 10 my first time in grade ten and we were changing schools because I I could no longer return to that one school so we're changing schools and I remember sitting with my mom.

28:44.67
Terrible Scott
Okay.

28:49.00
Darlene
And the the office with the administrator and she told him that that I had Adhd and I looked at her and said I what I do and I had I had no idea so I wasn't you know, given any type of support for this. Not even medication and um.

28:55.63
Terrible Scott
But.

29:04.64
Terrible Scott
Well.

29:08.38
Darlene
So then when I went to university the first time I ended up getting on the waitlist to get tested again thinking like do I have this like can can I get some support for this or whatnot so I ended up getting the diagnosis. I believe my last year in my first degree. So maybe about zero six or 7 and um, it came back as adhd combined type with a reading disorder so combined type. There's 2 types of Adhd and so I have I'm lucky enough to have both. And then a reading disorder and I don't really know what the reading disorder means but to me what it means is you know when I'm sitting there reading I I get distracted. It's not that I have a hard time being able to read. It's that I can't concentrate on it enough.

30:01.70
Terrible Scott
Do you have to read the same page 3 times like I do well it's.

30:05.43
Darlene
And I couldn't so when and I wouldd be in school at any age I remember any age you know when they would say oh little Johnny you read now and then it's little Susie's turn to read now to read out in loud like out loud in class I would dread that.

30:18.13
Terrible Scott
Oh man.

30:23.78
Darlene
And then when I did I would stammer because I couldn't even I I couldn't even attention when I was reading it aloud.

30:26.80
Terrible Scott
I you're you're you're triggering me right now in third grade my name got written on the board because and I'm going to say I'm going to say and Mrs Game don't edit that out Dan this is important.

30:35.13
danmetiv
Ah.

30:40.60
danmetiv
A word calling her out right now. Mrs Dame

30:44.23
Terrible Scott
Mrs Game called on me to read and I had just lost my place I'm following along other people are reading out loud. She calls on me to read I was and I was the perfect student back then I did everything my teachers told me. To get my fucking name written on the fucking board for just losing my place at the time she happened to call on me I hate that I misses game I hope you're listening you. You ruined my third grade experience.

31:19.10
Darlene
And ultimately your life.

31:21.60
Terrible Scott
In my life. Yes, and you know what I will say is you mentioned getting diagnosed Adhd fairly young at least compared to me and I was.

31:21.57
danmetiv
Yes, which is in shambles right now. Mrs Game

31:36.68
Terrible Scott
I was actually about to say congratulations because like learning that at such a younger age. You know first is I'm sure it's hard. But I'm sure you also learned some coping skills and but maybe you weren't if you weren't I mean one of the best things about the diagnosis for me has been. My ability to understand myself more and if you.

31:56.87
danmetiv
Yeah, if no one told you that and they're not offering you any support with that additional information then you and that that happened through the school system is that correct. Yeah my my question for the school system thirty plus years ago is what the hell was that for.

32:07.90
Darlene
Yes.

32:16.63
danmetiv
Why Why are you wasting? everyone's time and why are you kicking a student out that has a diagnosis of that and you're not offering any kind of support before kicking kids out.

32:16.98
Terrible Scott
The first.

32:18.85
Darlene
That's right.

32:25.50
Darlene
Well, they were awful back then they were awful. Well clearly they're still awful.

32:29.14
Terrible Scott
Yeah, yeah I don't doubt that it sounds like it. So um.

32:37.16
Terrible Scott
Ah, well I've got a totally different direction I could take some of the questioning off of that count. But I'm not going to yet. Um, so when you did get reevaluated did did you get it. Treated at that point and and I hate to use the word treated it I mean it's not an illness but it is something that we're yeah support.

32:56.95
danmetiv
Support. Yeah.

33:01.25
Darlene
Yeah, so what? the university does is they give you your the write up the report and then they have the recommendations. So the psychologist gives the recommendation so one was medication 1 another one was I only had to do.

33:06.25
Terrible Scott
E.

33:19.47
Darlene
I believe 60% of a course load and to be qualified as full time and I have ah extra time for tests and papers. Oh and I think there there was another one that I could have a designated note taker. So.

33:23.59
Terrible Scott
Okay, wow.

33:31.62
Terrible Scott
Okay.

33:39.53
Darlene
Accessibility services which at that time was called Disability services at the at the University and they had note takers on staff who would do that type of work for folks, but it was the end of my degree and so I didn't access any of that and then in.

33:50.44
danmetiv
Nice.

33:54.98
Terrible Scott
Okay.

33:57.64
Darlene
Second degree in my bachelor of social work I used it twice one time I used it to get extra time on a test and another time I used it. Ah you used it for extra time.

34:17.28
Darlene
Um, for an at home exam I got an extra week. So so those are the only times I used it I still was nervous to use I had a lot of shame around it and people you know, throw around a H D It's It's quite a bit more now. But um.

34:20.14
Terrible Scott
Okay.

34:26.73
Terrible Scott
Yeah.

34:37.40
Darlene
Even then I didn't want to use it as a crutch which is ridiculous and I would never recommend that people did what I did meaning not using the supports that were given to you but just um, you know feeling like I I could.

34:38.52
Terrible Scott
But.

34:55.47
Darlene
I can do this on my own and not really probably not understanding the Adhd because I was still quite young and then um so I use it a couple of those couple times and then I finish that degree and then and I never talked about it I didn't.

35:00.47
Terrible Scott
Yeah.

35:14.32
Darlene
You know, talk about it in class I didn't talk about it with my instructors. Um, except for the 1 time that I use it for the take home exam I so I have this you know can I have this extra time and she said yes and you know I told her that I had that. Um.

35:23.50
Terrible Scott
M.

35:32.35
Darlene
That document I I can't remember the logistics around it. So then um in my masters I started talking about it more because I was in this field that was so specialized and people were talking about a lot of things that happened to them and I have.

35:33.52
Terrible Scott
Okay.

35:51.20
Darlene
I Held a lot of shame around going to school because I couldn't learn like other people I couldn't sit still I couldn't understand like if you said okay these are the instructions right now do a B and C. Not even a B and C. You could just say sit with a partner or work on your own and do a for some reason I didn't hear that. Something happened. Maybe my I was like oh the butterflies. Although there's no Butterflies. So I Just I That's where I would really see where I struggled when I was given instruction and couldn't comprehend or didn't hear it at all for whatever reason and um.

36:28.20
Terrible Scott
Mm.

36:30.28
Darlene
Probably lots of daydreaming is is if I can if I'm trying to explain it properly and so I started talking about it because folks in my program. We had such a small program so there's only 18 students. Per year that are ours 18 students per year that are accepted into this and it's a cohort and it's very intimate and we work all together like all the time and then um, we didn't even have I don't know if we started with 18 I think a couple of people that's right a couple of people were not on the intensive 1 year program that we were in so it was an intensive 1 year of coursework and in that time we would do our proposal for our thesis and ah by spring at least or most people had started.

37:10.88
Terrible Scott
From kaf.

37:25.71
Darlene
Doing their research for their thesis at that point so it was it was very condensed and very intimate and very fast pace and very we're all very close which is one of the reasons why this shit happened with this instructor is because. You know I didn't I didn't want to say anything I didn't want to rock the boat because we were such a tightknit group I felt that if I came forward with the stuff that had happened that I would ruin the group and it would have to this day when I look back and what I do something differently. I don't think I would in regards to going forward earlier. Maybe I would have moved away from that instructor I I like to think that I would have been like your ton of red flags. You know I can see your abusive behavior I can see this gaslighting and just move away from that person. But. Again I think let me think um I think at that point we were like 11 students. So even moving away and there is 2 professors who were full time in our program and she was one of them. So.

38:36.82
Terrible Scott
Okay.

38:39.98
Darlene
Even if I wanted I'd like to think that I would do something different. It was very very hard I thought about leaving the program. Um, but I would have to because the regular masters program was an ah like a complete different program I'd have to reapply. The courses wouldn't transfer over because these ones were specific to what we were dealing with and what this this specialized degree was around and so I would have had to start the classes over from the very beginning. Um it. It just would have been a total nightmare I had. I had made friends in this program like we were all close. We all got along for the most part I believe and um I had some really good friends. 1 good friend who saw everything that had happened and I would confide in her quite a bit in the end. She. Fucked me over in the in but I can get to that and um I still haven't finished and that was I started that program in 2018 I I had finished all my research in June. Of 2018 started writing my thesis and then when we were done classes in August I pretty much dropped everything I couldn't I after I was done. It was like I dropped I couldn't I had been holding on and holding this together for so long.

40:10.92
Darlene
And I didn't want anything to do with this program and anything to do with this thesis. Although I felt so passionately about what I was researching I I anytime I thought about it or or looked at my research or thought about my research. It brought up all these feelings of all the shit that went through in the program and so we finished in August and then in January I seriously thought about doing a complaint and then I started that. I went to the dean I told him what happened and then I did a formal complaint through the human rights department at the university and handed that in in February of 20202020 and then well March everything shut down so it was.

41:01.32
Terrible Scott
Yeah, it it sounds like it and I'm I'm pausing because Dan looked like he was starting to say something.

41:03.96
Darlene
A lot.

41:12.29
danmetiv
I Mean yeah, it does sound like a lot. Um, and.

41:20.25
danmetiv
It's still not done are you are you able to finish your degree still are you able to get this. You know so far as the rules of the program go is this something you can still finish at this point.

41:31.97
Darlene
Yeah, and my current advisor is really annoyed with me so like um so you know and just quickly going back to the Adhd and because I haven't said anything about really really what happened. So I I started talking about that and the struggles that I've had in school and talking about how I you know and I'm not the only one who has imposter syndrome and and specifically in school but in in general in our careers and whatnot felt quite a bit of that in in school because I never.

42:00.76
Terrible Scott
Oh yeah.

42:01.58
danmetiv
For sure.

42:06.79
Darlene
Felt like I fit in because I was always in trouble at school and so I was trying to be open when I've never been open before so when we would have our sharing circles. That's what I would talk about and we literally had sharing circles because it's an indigenous based program and so.

42:23.30
Terrible Scott
Okay.

42:26.53
Darlene
Ah, that's what I would talk about is my struggles with school and then with that instructor she would use that against me. Oh I think that you're using you know your Adhd as as a crutch as an excuse. The first time I actually talk about it.

42:43.43
Terrible Scott
Um, right? Yeah, no, that's that's terrible I mean I mean I I haven't had that experience but to have someone who doesn't have your lived experiences who is dismissing them and.

42:45.39
Darlene
She was very much a gas lighter.

43:03.19
Terrible Scott
Deciding that Oh that's your excuse. That's your crutch. That's your whatever, such fucking bullshit. Yeah, not to mention that right? So when you started did did things.

43:08.43
Darlene
Um, and someone in a position of power in an anti-oppressive program.

43:12.66
danmetiv
Yeah, wildly ironic.

43:20.85
Terrible Scott
Did things feel okay from I mean they must have if you were comfortable enough to start sharing a little bit the the beginning of the program.

43:26.53
Darlene
Yeah, yeah, did I met some great people. Well the whole our whole group was great and of course there was you know little like small groups within it but it we all got along and you know if somebody didn't like someone ah like it. It didn't show.

43:37.20
Terrible Scott
Move.

43:44.47
Darlene
Nobody was you know, outwardly mean to anybody else and that was also one of the reasons why I was trying to hide what was happening with this instructor and so we had gotten really close and I had feelings for her and she was.

43:44.66
Terrible Scott
Okay.

44:05.44
Darlene
It It was reciprocal and or she was leading me on without any um intention to go further I have no idea for I I Honestly don't have an idea. Um, however.

44:08.90
Terrible Scott
Um.

44:22.95
Darlene
She said things later on like um, she only dates men. Um you know, just shitting on the fact that Homophobia is also internal.

44:35.96
danmetiv
So let me back up just a sec to make sure that I understand so this is the same professor the gas lighter so it starts off that you guys have a nice relationship, a good relationship. Potentially romantic feelings to start with so this is the first.

44:52.89
Darlene
This is the first few weeks so I had first met her earlier in 2018 so when I applied for the program at the end of 2017 that's what like the application date and within a few months you know they're going through everybody's application and they invited who the people who they thought.

44:53.46
danmetiv
Few weeks first few months.

45:12.80
Darlene
They would like to have in the program they invited them for an interview so I was invited for an interview so I met her there so that every interview panel had 3 people in it and so there was her an elder and one of the elders from our program because there's 2 elders in our program. And another prof from the university and you know it it went well it I it was it was positive and then when it got cool then when they come back and tell you you're accepted and you. You know, confirm your acceptance and you want to be in the program then we had a get together where okay, we're gonna all meet this one day we're gonna go over this one time that we're so before every single one of these programs start they do this this. This get together for five days and it's it's not called culture camp but people call it culture camp like just you know as a side and what it is. We get together. We deal with ah um, we get to know one another we camp in the same place and.

46:16.36
danmetiv
M.

46:27.64
Darlene
Um, we look at different traditional values and teachings and learn things and and whatnot and so it's a five day intensive or it was a three day anyhow it was a few days and that's when her and i. Um, got close That's when well a lot of us got close really but when her and I got close. We exchanged numbers. We'd be texting the following week I think it was a few days after we had left there her and I had driven like out of town together. We met up with another student in another town.

46:48.63
Terrible Scott
And.

46:50.72
danmetiv
Oo.

47:05.82
Darlene
That he lived in and then after we all hung out her and I continued on for a road trip by ourselves and that's right then? um.

47:13.34
Terrible Scott
Ok.

47:14.68
danmetiv
So you've logged some serious time together in a few weeks. Yeah.

47:23.39
Darlene
And it was it was in secret right? So people you know some people were part of her favorites Group. So I was one that other and student was one and and some others and and. We just we we would hang around more together so she smoked cigarettes so because when we took breaks I wanted to be around her so I started smoking again. I hadn't smoked since I was for probably 20 years if not more and so I started smoking. Just to hang out with her and to go outside and be around her and then like we just again, we just like kept texting um a couple times we hung out without other people knowing without other people. Um.

48:02.17
Terrible Scott
Golf.

48:18.65
Darlene
We had talked about going on vacation together. She's an Nfl fan so she's american where the rest of us are canadian and so she has.

48:26.38
danmetiv
Man Americans are so fucked up that doesn't surprise me at all I'm on behalf of all of us I'm sorry for this.

48:33.30
Terrible Scott
Ah, if if.

48:36.40
Darlene
I Accept your apology.

48:38.59
danmetiv
It makes me feel good. Thank you.

48:44.80
Darlene
And so she was an Nfl fan. Um, and we had talked about going to a game in the states together we had um she had gone with another prof in another program to the states and I was going to the states at the same time. She thought she she was toying whether or not she was going to go because the other prof was going to bring her partner and then she ended up not bringing her partner or they ended up not bringing their partner and then um she had said to me at the time like ok I will go. Because I know that you're going so at least like there's a way out like I can come stay with you if I'm not enjoying myself and then the other prof didn't end up bringing their partner so we were in the same city at the same time. Um, so.

49:38.38
Darlene
We didn't meet up but we are talking the whole time. Um, there are some chairs she wanted for her for her office because she didn't have nice chairs in her office. So I found them in the states and I brought them back for her. Um, what else can I say.

49:41.54
Terrible Scott
Um.

49:55.53
Terrible Scott
Now. Well it it it. Ah.

49:57.56
danmetiv
You're building you're building a relationship and it sounds like it's There's intent there and there's more than just a Baseline friendship for sure.

50:00.90
Terrible Scott
Yeah, and I and I'm wondering and and I'm I'm wondering I'm I'm getting maybe a little sense and I'm not sure if I'm reading it right? But like the trip at the same time you know. Talking or texting or whatever I didn't but not seeing each other is there a level of manipulation that's going on at this point. Do you think?? okay.

50:28.20
Darlene
Ah, hundred percent because she was always push and pull. It was always on her terms I was always waiting around to hear back? Um I would travel to the same that same city.

50:34.37
Terrible Scott
Um.

50:43.76
Darlene
On a regular basis once or twice a year because one of my best friends lives there and so we ended up going the same time I think I I want to say that it was like Thanksgiving long weekend in the states. But I can't remember for sure.

50:47.60
Terrible Scott
Okay.

51:01.64
Darlene
And yeah there there was definitely manipulation.

51:08.29
danmetiv
Um, and 1 thing we didn't talk about let me ask this? um are you ah, let's see is are are you part of is it the first nation in in like we call native americans in the US and its first nation in Canada is that right.

51:21.18
Darlene
Yeah, that's right? So we say first nations I am not I'm white and it's a first nations indigenous based program.

51:30.80
danmetiv
Okay, thank you.

51:33.39
Terrible Scott
Okay, so at what point did you start recognizing that that things were off.

51:46.63
Darlene
I Think the chaos of it all late I I knew that it was uncomfortable but it was still exhilarating. Um I don't know if you've ever been with somebody who is a total gaslighter and fucked with your mind on a regular basis. But.

51:52.14
Terrible Scott
Um.

52:01.98
Darlene
The the highs can be very high and the lows are very low and they get to they get to control that at all times. So if I so sometimes I would see her and she would be giddy and happy and other times she would you know you know, not even acknowledge me.

52:05.75
Terrible Scott
Right? right.

52:21.49
Darlene
And I it was very hot and cold I never knew what I was walking into every day I was going to school I I I was anxious. Um, so ah, I'll just I'll I'll just say some ah ah finish the the storyline and then I'll get into that. And so this was still in the falls. The first few months of the program and then we had we had talked about going to um, going on different trips together and whether or not that was when we were still in this program so we had talked about both and she was like ok. If we go on this trip together like you you can't tell anyone and sometimes she would say um she would count the moon so she would be like 11 moons 10 moons. So insinuating that after I was done the program that we would be together.

53:15.20
Terrible Scott
For.

53:17.27
Darlene
She didn't use those words but when I would talk about it. She would count the moons and then in December we had met and gone we had met at Ikea to get some things and to hang out and. We were there for for about 2 hours I don't know if I bought anything but we just got a couple little things but we were like messing around in Ikea the whole time she like got in the cart and I was pushing her around um things that adults don't generally do.

53:54.64
Darlene
And professors don't generally do with their students. She was also my advisor for my for my thesis at that time. Although I hadn't we hadn't started our the thesis program yet the our class but that was um.

54:04.91
Terrible Scott
M.

54:11.65
Darlene
That was the intention and so she had seen my work and she was you know, guiding me along that and she um she had she had talked about like we had talked about going to dollywood together in Tennessee because I had wanted to go there for quite some time. Also like there's lots of joking around and fun times that were happening in the program and like she would put on like my my bracelets I had break bracelets on but when I would type I would take them off because my computer was on my desk you know when they would get in the way she would put them on she would put on my glasses like.

54:34.19
Terrible Scott
For.

54:50.52
Darlene
Lots of messing around and so we were talking about going on a trip together and and Christmas vacation was coming up and she. She said? Okay, so if we come at this like we we you can't talk to anybody and planning like when we would leave and how that would what would that would look like and then I said something about that 1 student who I had that friend of mine in the program who I had confided in the whole time she saw something she ended up being. My closest friend in the program and when we were at the camp the culture camp in August the second day she said is there something between you and this person and I said you see that and she says absolutely so so I didn't even tell her initially. That that was going on but her and I were sharing a room at that camp. We didn't know if we had just met and the second day she had clued in on it. So so I had said oh I mentioned that person's name in a conversation and she said.

55:43.00
Terrible Scott
Okay.

56:00.40
Darlene
You told her that we went to Ikea and I said yes, but only because we were you know at the mall together and I had to go or or something like that.

56:10.74
Terrible Scott
M.

56:13.60
Darlene
And then she's like I got to go and and she hung up and then she stopped talking to me completely and she cut me right off and and then ah I.

56:22.28
Terrible Scott
Okay, and.

56:29.99
Darlene
Can't remember if we were done classes for December at that point I believe we were I can't say for sure. But when we returned for January although over the holidays I had gone to the university just to do some work I think it was January first and so I was the only one in the atrium area. Ex. It's this one? Um. Off campus um building and so it's it's smaller and so when you walk in, there's you know the atrium and some tables and so I was sitting there working and it was just me the security guard and she had walked in so she walked in and saw me. And you know tripped over the rug because you know she was shocked to see me there and hadn't talked to me in weeks and um and I had you know I can't remember if I had called her to leave her a message I didn't call she was the one who called me and I had so maybe I had called her at that point. Um.

57:12.44
Terrible Scott
Button.

57:27.80
Darlene
But I was texting her not a lot but a couple of times being like can we talk about this. She never responded so when she saw me she was shocked and she went to her office and then when we started the um class again when we started classic. It. That's when I never knew what I was walking into. Whether she would say hi to me or she and then because there was there was a group of us me and that one person and um, two others. There's a group of 4 of us that were close that we hung out and it. She would talk to them like she would come up to us because we were the ones that she was really close with and talked to the most and so she would come up to us as a group and not talk to me and not acknowledge that I was there and it was It was so hurtful and it was so inappropriate. And like I I Just never knew how to be and then so when I wouldn't acknowledge her as well because why would I want to you know there's no point. Um, then she would call me out on it. Oh You're not talking to me or you don't even say hi or. Like just constant gaslighting So No matter what I did I was fucked no matter what I did if I was happy I was fucked if I pretending and I was Happy. Let's be clear trying to like just survive and get through the program. But if I didn't acknowledge her.

59:00.46
Darlene
Then she would turn it around on me. So no matter what I did was wrong February by the time February came around so at that point then I had changed my advisor had gone to the other one and then I was trying to rush through some things I wanted to get out of this program as quick as possible I wanted to be done. I wanted to be done at that time I didn't and want to continue and so I switched my advisors and I um sent some things like my paper to her and she came back with corrections and we're going back and forth and I was like like you you have different corrections for me every time like I snapped at her. And then that ruined our relationship but that happened because I was in such like turmoil about this other thing that was going on I hated going to school every single day. It was so horrible and so abusive and I'm trying to.

59:45.33
Terrible Scott
Yeah.

59:56.99
Darlene
Keep my cool and smile and not ruin it for everybody else because it was so small that I would have so then here I am now like this other instructors annoyed with me and then this one is you know.

01:00:00.80
Terrible Scott
No.

01:00:15.59
Darlene
Behaving terribly and um February came around what by the time February came around I was like I need to get out this program. It was so bad I wanted to die and not not that I was suicidal but I wanted to die because I wanted it to be over. It was so. Painful so a friend and I that she's not related to the university a friend and I had gone to Mexico together for a week in February and she had um you know, ah she had known about what was going on. Of course and when I got there I oh this professor also was on my social media and and when I had started the program back in August I was like are you on Instagram and she says like well I have like a private one and so she created 1.

01:00:54.60
Terrible Scott
Um.

01:01:11.41
Darlene
Because I had asked her to be on there and wanted us to follow each other so she had started this Instagram after I had asked her to and so.

01:01:18.35
Terrible Scott
This sounds this sounds I'm sorry I just some of the tactics and things that people oh I don't I I will have a private one with you and I mean and I'm I'm sorry I'm also going to say this is yes. 1 of us has been in a relationship with lots of gaslighting um episode one for anyone who is listening to us for the first time. Go back. It's my episode. Um and I'm hearing this and it's one of those things that these abusers. Are able to do things in a way that it's like hey Darlene tell me tell me what she did and especially people that know her and see her good side. You know there's plausible deniability there there there are things that oh. Darlene you're overreacting. Oh no, she didn't she's not ignoring. You know it's all of these little fucking things that the world might not recognize in and of themselves. But when you are in it. There is nothing that you can do to get out of it and.

01:02:28.68
Darlene
That's right.

01:02:29.54
Terrible Scott
Everything you said something that resonated with me so much is you don't know who to be you don't know you know if I come in happy today that's wrong if I come in looking all sad that's wrong if anything you fucking do is going to be the wrong thing that you can do. And I do have a question for you or are I don't know how this university works or education in in Canada in general are you paying for this program so you're paying for it and it's you know it's bad enough when it's a job you're going to every day.

01:02:56.84
Darlene
Sure am.

01:03:04.93
Terrible Scott
But people will say well quit and get a different job. You can't in. You're telling us that you can't just take these credits and plug them in or go to a different professor or anything you are paying to go to this place and have you've got no options. It sounds like.

01:03:22.32
Darlene
That's right? so so yes walking on egg shells is what you're explaining there walking a shell up knowing when when she did create the Instagram account she ended up adding other people in our program.

01:03:25.69
Terrible Scott
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:35.30
Terrible Scott
E.

01:03:37.18
Darlene
But only after her and I had that conversation and so her and a lot of our universities in this one is publicly funded so we pay a portion of a smaller portion of what University costs and our taxes go into this.

01:03:47.29
Terrible Scott
Oh.

01:03:54.97
Terrible Scott
Sure.

01:03:56.85
Darlene
So not only am I paying her salary but so is everybody else in this country. so so I had gone to Mexico and like.

01:04:02.37
Terrible Scott
Right? right.

01:04:13.71
Darlene
Because I was spinning and not doing well I was checking to see if she was watching my stories of course because that's what you do when you're in a fucked up situation like that and she was she was constantly watching my Instagram stories. So while I was there I deleted her off my Instagram which was a big deal and it let me have a better time which was.

01:04:18.16
Terrible Scott
M.

01:04:32.60
Darlene
Great and I can't remember what happened when I came back or or whatnot but that type of walking on egg shells and never knowing what she was going to be like and what I was walking into was constant throughout the whole program. And then like just even myself like I wasn't behaving like myself I was in constant crisis because our we to be at school at least a couple times at least twice a week if not more and also.

01:04:57.84
Terrible Scott
Yeah.

01:05:07.16
Darlene
It was so intense that sure we were in class or not but we'd be at the University working and working on our homework and working on um, working on our thesis and whatnot and at the time I was a foster parent so I was my house was busy all the time I had high risk teens. And I had support workers and respite workers here all the time. So I would stay at University to work because that was my university and I would struggle with that thinking like I shouldn't even be here I'm like no you belong Here. You should be here. This is your program. You're a student here you know talking myself through it. Because at home I wouldn't get anything done because there was always something going on and so um, at some point I had gone to an organization that I was um when I was looking for when I was seeking participants for my study for my thesis and. I Misspoke I said I met I Misspoke in a way that got back to the University and so then she was in a way she was she was then in a position where she was able to give me shit and so I was called into this meeting and it had you know the director of our.

01:06:14.80
Terrible Scott
Yeah.

01:06:21.17
Darlene
Of our like grad studies or I don't know what the the her title was plus her and plus an elder and this was brought up and I just started crying not because of what happened but because like after all this shit you're so fucking abusive and after.

01:06:37.10
Terrible Scott
Right.

01:06:39.24
Darlene
All this shit. You're sitting here giving like giving me shit when you knew that I was going to this place and one of the things was is I needed to um so I'm a first time researcher number one I'm a student you we have advisors for a reason.

01:06:43.34
Terrible Scott
Yeah.

01:06:57.23
Darlene
Advise us what we're doing how to do it properly and one of the issues was is I was seeking participants in a passive manner which means I couldn't go to a program and say hey I'm here doing this study does anybody want to you know, talk with me. But she knew I was going that day she knew I was going and so then one of the the things I got in trouble for I got in trouble for 2 things but 1 of the things I got in trouble for was that wasn't passive income I sorry passive passive. That's right, it was.

01:07:27.18
danmetiv
Research.

01:07:31.99
Darlene
Was going there and asking people when it should have been you know, giving them a pamphlet and she assumed no responsibility for that because she just sat there and berated me the whole time and then she was able to get out all her anger. It was so messed up.

01:07:35.30
Terrible Scott
M.

01:07:41.40
Terrible Scott
Right? Yeah, yeah, and that sounds terrible and and it sounds like I mean just a complete abuse of her position and in power as well as just. Abuse and in in general. Um, you know the the type of relationship that that the 2 of you had started and um, you know I'm not going to let you off scotfree Totally um you know it sounds like maybe some of the decisions you made to get into that relationship probably weren't for the best. Um, and you know but that I just wanted to say that but while acknowledging that that by no means gives her any right to do the things that she did you know we we're not going to victim blame here I'm just acknowledging the fact that you know. I Certainly got into my marriage by making you know, not the best decisions. Um, and sometimes those decisions do have some consequences and boy that that right.

01:08:49.66
danmetiv
Decisions have consequences but we're still working with the best information that we have when we start.

01:08:54.48
Terrible Scott
For sure and and so darlene. That's why we talk about decent fucking humans because you doing something like That. You're a decent fucking human and you expect the person on the other side to be a decent fucking human and okay, maybe you could both see that the relationship with someone in a. Power Dynamic might not be for the best right? But that's something that's minor something that hey you can work through in all of this but you expect her to on the other side act like a decent fucking human and she didn't and that's where there's the the problems and I just want to make it clear and I'm not sitting here trying. I was actually trying to make sure we're not casting blame at you for maybe some of the small things decisions you made. But I want to make sure that it didn't sound like quite the opposite. Um I just wanted to acknowledge. Well I'm untamed Ok fine, fine fine I'm not not on Ta Team Darlene. Um.

01:09:36.21
danmetiv
Well, it sounded like quite the opposite Scott Nice I'm I'm I'm on team darlene here.

01:09:52.71
Terrible Scott
But we are running low on on time at this point darlene. So let's just can we get to what when you decided to file a complaint.

01:10:05.90
Darlene
Um, so I had gone to the university so then after I had finished the program. The coursework I ended up getting a whole other advisor in a different program and when I had gone to the university at some point to meet with her I believe it was it was January January Twenty Twenty and I just broke down I like I finally like broke down about everything and I had held it in I had I had told I so that at that point I had told.

01:10:23.38
Terrible Scott
Um.

01:10:39.41
Darlene
The director of my program and then I had um told the dean of like the the faculty of social work I had met with him and I was you know in his office shaking and crying and telling him the whole story and he had. Um, at that point he had referred me to the human rights department to make a complaint and so I did that and I was still scared and ah that person who I thought was my friend in the program that one that I was really close with.

01:11:05.68
Terrible Scott
Okay.

01:11:17.84
Darlene
At first she said she was going to come to the university with me because I didn't know if I could go talk to the dean by myself and then she totally turned her back on me and even when I so I finally completed and sent in the complaint February 2020 and then when was time to do the investigations. The university hired a lawyer to do ah a formal investigation that friend even though she wasn't talking to me anymore at that time she had um she had. Already stabbed me in the back a couple times so she had called me crying this is important part so she'd called me crying and early January and she says can I talk to you and okay, she goes and so we we go I go into another room because I was in the main area here at my house and. Ah, people were around and so she told me she says you know when you had first talked about making a complaint in June or July of 2019 she said um I had told the professor I was social i. Did not I could not believe it. Ah so I said okay and and she was you know, very upset and very apologetic and um she said I didn't I wasn't sure if like I believed in you going forward because of your role.

01:12:49.80
Darlene
In what you also did in this and so I told her so she totally betrayed my trust whether or not yeah well we all act in the best way that we think that we can for whatever reason whether it's survival or what not.

01:12:49.69
Terrible Scott
Right.

01:13:02.43
Terrible Scott
M.

01:13:06.58
Darlene
And so actually actually that's not always true. Some people do devious things on purpose and so when I when I was being um interviewed and you know I had written it all out and it was 15 pages like single-paced.

01:13:10.21
Terrible Scott
Yes.

01:13:26.50
Darlene
And then there was an additional page with witnesses and this person was one of them including the 2 other friends that I had at the time in the program and 1 of the other friends. She turned that other person. Um on me as well. So they both stopped talking to me. And then I said well you know this person isn't talking to me this main person and I said but you can when you interview her she'll tell you the truth she knows it all right? like she was their throat at all. She saw exactly what went down she heard about it. She saw it firsthand. Mind you she did nothing about it. These are future social workers by the way and so she did nothing about it in an anti-oppressive program and then when I got the report back. Ah, she lied every single thing that she said.

01:14:14.32
Terrible Scott
Um.

01:14:23.78
Darlene
Was a lie and somebody else who is part of it lied and I have witnesses for that. So and there are staff of the University who was there in another meeting and um. They lied. They said that I said and did something that I didn't happen and whatnot it looked terrible on me because it looked like both these people were completely saying that. Yeah, it was my fault and I behaved terribly and this other person was innocent and.

01:14:51.10
Terrible Scott
Right.

01:14:56.51
Darlene
So it's it's held me back so today in 2023. It's I still haven't handed in oh I've handed in you know, a couple different drafts of my thesis but it's still not done and I'm still paying university fees and I struggle back and forth. Like not wanting to be a number going back to the values that I was talking about social work as a social worker I had struggled quite a bit with calling myself a social worker and I am a registered social worker because this is not why I'm a social worker and I don't believe in.

01:15:18.21
Terrible Scott
In.

01:15:35.10
Darlene
The profession if this is how social workers behave so the one who threw me under the bus. The very good friend those 2 people actually um that turned on me right away. They both went on to um, they they both submitted their thesis. And they both went onto the ph d program so they had an ulterior motive right? They couldn't rock the boat in the faculty and then um here I am still I was one of the like at that time I was one of the 3 or 4 people.

01:15:56.74
Terrible Scott
Right.

01:16:10.35
Darlene
There was only a handful of us in the program who were almost done our thesis by the time we were done our our our coursework in August of 2019 and now I still haven't even handed it in because I don't even want to count as a number in that program. So and just so you know she's now the other.

01:16:21.65
Terrible Scott
Sure.

01:16:29.45
Darlene
The person who was the head of the department who she gaslit and was terrible to as well left because of the bullying that. But so that professor left because the bullying that this one did to her and now this one is the head of that of my program that I'm still in.

01:16:45.41
Terrible Scott
Well Okay, so what's the plan now. Ah you yeah you're you're you're you're here to talk to us for a reason um to to talk about trauma holding you back and so I say that we.

01:16:49.58
danmetiv
Burn it down.

01:17:03.12
Terrible Scott
We you know this one that doesn't get wrapped up in a nice little bow right? we've we've got work to do so what are we doing next? what? what are we doing next how how can Dan and I support the next step that you take.

01:17:18.76
Darlene
Oh Wow Do you want to be my thesis buddies. Ah either. Um.

01:17:20.21
Terrible Scott
I Don't know how what that means and I don't think you'd want us to be.

01:17:27.96
danmetiv
I'm not good at research I can't really write and I definitely can't prove read anything I don't know what else is required of a thesis buddy. Ah.

01:17:33.28
Terrible Scott
We're we're we're yeah okay well I I.

01:17:36.33
Darlene
So Dan's out and my thesis because that would be plagiarism but it is um it it. It is with edits now and the next step is is I have to do the next round of edits. But now that it's the you know end of July um I probably will need to wait another year to graduate because everything need to be wrapped up in August including my defense and whatnot. So I thought that I would have.

01:18:00.10
Terrible Scott
Okay.

01:18:06.12
Terrible Scott
I.

01:18:09.91
Darlene
Graduated in October and that won't happen so I need to just keep pushing through but every time that I think about it I just want to throw it to the side and it's been a very long time so that's how that's how the trauma holds us back right? And so.

01:18:25.83
Terrible Scott
Yeah.

01:18:29.65
Darlene
I'm excited for the day that it's actually done and I and that this won't be weighing so heavily on my shoulders anymore and holding me black.

01:18:36.85
Terrible Scott
Is telling your start story part of trying to move past that.

01:18:44.93
Darlene
I've been quite silent about it this whole time, especially after the investigation and I had recently before right around the time that you and I first spoke Scott I had recently.

01:18:45.66
Terrible Scott
Open.

01:18:58.90
Terrible Scott
M.

01:19:01.99
Darlene
Gone to an event where I brought it up on stage and in a very short way and that it opened me up so much knowing that I needed to get it out and.

01:19:05.96
Terrible Scott
Wow.

01:19:16.76
Darlene
Be done with it and really I've done a lot of work with my with my own therapist on it. Um, and she's very supportive. But for some reason I'm still held back with handing it in.

01:19:21.60
Terrible Scott
Sure.

01:19:30.38
Terrible Scott
Yeah, you know what? though you're you're processing it. You're you're doing what you need to do you're I love the fact that you brought up therapy telling your story owning it a little bit all of this these are the steps that that are going to help you and I commend you for all of that. And am very happy to see you doing that and I think the way that we I came up with the way that maybe we can best support you is. We can have Dan you know when he reads the opening for this. He can read openings for like what you're going to do for the day. So like. Ah, you are working on your thesis and you know I can't do the great Dan voice but you witnessed it live you. So I mean he does a wonderful job. So just give him a couple of scripts or at least a couple of words to that he could put in his script. We'll get him to record some for you.

01:20:14.68
danmetiv
Um, if you.

01:20:21.20
Darlene
Um, yeah, oh that's perfect I'll get him on my voxer and he could just send me voice messages in the morning on Vok. Okay, perfect.

01:20:25.85
danmetiv
I Don't know what a voxer is but that sounds great. Well.

01:20:25.97
Terrible Scott
I I don't either. But but yes day Damn yeah yeah.

01:20:33.70
danmetiv
Scott sounds like we're wrapping it up I've got 1 more question so and this is unrelated to your story which was great and we so happy you shared it with us. Thank you? Um, part of my ad d well I'm going to say two things now part of my ad d. Um, when I have a large project I get overwhelmed by it and then I put it off to the side just that's part of everything I do and. Then I feel wildly overwhelmed because the thing that I want to get done is off to the side and then I can't do anything because I'm just overwhelmed and then I just watch Tv ah instead of getting anything done or so doom scroll on my phone for several hours. So what? i.

01:21:09.13
Terrible Scott
Isn't.

01:21:17.87
Terrible Scott
M.

01:21:22.64
danmetiv
Recently and I can't believe it took me to like I'm in my mid 40 s to do this. But when I feel overwhelmed about the giant massive thing that like I want to get done and I'm not doing if I just get up and go do 5 minutes of that. Whatever it is. Man I feel so much better and I feel like a little bit closer to the end and I'll usually do a few hours of it then it's unbelievable and so.

01:21:40.88
Terrible Scott
Um, it.

01:21:44.72
Terrible Scott
It can you can feel it melting can't you yeah.

01:21:49.34
Darlene
Yeah, and when I've done that I also as I'm doing it and after it's done I'm like that's not a big deal that felt like why it take me so long. Yeah, and the the other ironic part because we had lots of irony in this.

01:21:55.16
Terrible Scott
Yeah, why? Why didn't why it took me that long to do it I.

01:21:56.96
danmetiv
Yeah, so.

01:22:04.70
Terrible Scott
Okay.

01:22:06.40
Darlene
But the other iron. Ah the I The other irony in this is that I work with people and support them to work through their barriers.

01:22:11.25
Terrible Scott
Yeah, yeah, well, but.

01:22:11.67
danmetiv
Yeah, yeah, yeah in in those 2 things supporting others and helping others totally different than doing that shit yourself totally different.

01:22:21.95
Terrible Scott
Yeah, it it is but again I can't help but point out I mean you didn't want to file a complaint right away necessarily then you did it? Um, it's taken some time you've had a therapist Now you're talking about it more.

01:22:38.20
danmetiv
Yes, totally.

01:22:38.35
Terrible Scott
So you're taking the steps and in in ah, a direction and it sounds like you've made progress as well. You know you've made it through rounds of edits have more rounds of edits which will be so much easier when Dan's reading the intro to you editing? Um I think it'll be great.

01:22:51.60
danmetiv
You know if you need it I'm happy to take anything you've got and run it through chat Gp T to I'm really capable of that I I believe that but that's what I'm capable of doing if if you need it.

01:22:59.21
Darlene
Um, might get in a lot of trouble for that.

01:23:00.80
Terrible Scott
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:23:06.32
Darlene
Um, we I think we already established downs out except for supportive voice messages.

01:23:09.49
Terrible Scott
Um I that is okay.

01:23:11.21
danmetiv
Okay, here's my other here's my other question here's my other question now this is the one that's unrelated all right. You have spent years studying the patriarchy and colonial Oppression. You're here on a call. With 2 middle aged white guys that have clearly benefited from being middle aged white guys and open platform. What do you need us to know that we might not I want to learn I Want to get better I Want to be a better person.

01:23:46.90
Darlene
That's it. You just said it just be a better person day every day we fuck up right? We do. We're human, keep your eyes open and do better and me too I fuck up I put my foot in my mouth regularly.

01:23:47.59
danmetiv
Oh shit that was easy.

01:23:47.85
Terrible Scott
If if.

01:24:03.32
Darlene
And just move forward. Don't get stuck in it.

01:24:08.50
danmetiv
That's a wonderful answer and it's not very difficult to act on. It might be difficult to turn off our fucking bluetooth speaker when we're having podcast conversation but that's not difficult to act on and thank you.

01:24:09.35
Terrible Scott
Blue Juice is connected.

01:24:24.42
Terrible Scott
Blue choose disconnected.

01:24:25.49
danmetiv
I will continue to try to be better and to listen.

01:24:31.38
Terrible Scott
Do we want to go back. 90 seconds and start this over. But.

01:24:36.77
danmetiv
Ah, why? why? why? try to make a good podcast now Scott ah, ah.

01:24:38.35
Terrible Scott
Well, you're the one who left in my rambling last week so I had covered last week and I asked this long long rambling question that never turned into a question because I forgot what was I thought that if I talked long enough I'd figure out where I was going. Instead it just made it way worse and producer Dan chose to leave that in the episode last week so um I'm sure that the the Bluetooth speaker in the background will make it under this episode. Yeah.

01:25:01.90
Darlene
Um.

01:25:03.98
danmetiv
Oh it Sure will.

01:25:06.23
Darlene
Um, so Scott I'm 93% in for the tattoo.

01:25:10.25
Terrible Scott
93% how do we get that to 94

01:25:15.68
danmetiv
Talk to your therapist about any rash decisions that you might be making I'm not telling you yes or no but I'm saying you've got a great sounding board that you have a good relationship with that's helped you a lot so far.

01:25:22.17
Terrible Scott
Um, ah.

01:25:29.55
Terrible Scott
Um I I think I I I've not you know what my therapist my former like I said I graduated recently used Yes I'll still dance therapist. Um called me ah a d.

01:25:30.80
danmetiv
Maybe that's something you want to run by them before you get to 94 just say.

01:25:38.75
danmetiv
So so my therapist.

01:25:46.83
Terrible Scott
Ah, fh he he used it. He said you're a dfh and I mean come on up. So what I took from that is therapists will support the decent fucking human tattoo. They'll encourage it. Um, so that will yeah talk to your therapist to get you to 94% and well we in Dan you send her some voice notes or whatever telling her to get to studying and in your positively terrible voice and I think we've got this covered you're gonna finish your program. You're Goingnna get a tattoo I'm going to prove you wrong Dan and did.

01:26:18.85
danmetiv
Everybody wins and we we can finally talk about a tattoo that's been gotten. Ah.

01:26:23.23
Terrible Scott
Yes, yes, oh there is lots of talk. there's there's chatter there's chatter there's lots of people. They're not telling you Dan they're telling me I swear I mean I mean this like literally I've got like I mean if you're 94% I've got like so no well I mean that.

01:26:37.90
danmetiv
You've you've surrounded yourself with people pleasers.

01:26:43.20
Terrible Scott
We have a show about trauma most of the people who end up coming on consider themselves people pleasers. Ah I think that that's a trauma a response that a lot of people have to trauma. So yeah, but yeah, so I.

01:26:45.32
danmetiv
The.

01:26:50.75
Darlene
Absolutely.

01:26:57.57
Terrible Scott
Look I think thank you so much darlene for for coming on and and sharing a story, especially 1 That's been hard to tell up until recently and probably still is hard to tell to some extent. Um, you know it's been great I appreciate in every time I like to say that I'm grateful and. Honored and in all of the words that we can come up with ah for you being willing to share with us and just us we've got listeners. You know that your story is going to be out there and it takes it takes some some courage to be able to come out and tell these stories. So Thank you so much and you passed the decent fucking human tests. We really enjoyed well I'll speak for myself I'll say I really enjoyed but Dan already said that he's very much enjoyed this time as well. Um, so I guess we'll just wrap that up and this way I always do and tell you that this has been.

01:27:51.78
Terrible Scott
Absolutely positively terrible.