Transcript Generated from audio by ChatGPT Whisper model, and not checked for accuracy.

You're tuned in to Positively Terrible. I'm producer Dan and each week my buddy Scott and I discuss surviving and thriving after trauma. It's a journey that started when Scott, his wife's fiance, and her boyfriend walked into a bar. This week's Decent Human Being is Mike. He's got a fucked up story about the chaotic nature of a teenage cancer diagnosis. Settle in my terrible listeners, today's episode is going to be positively terrible. Hey Mike, hey Scott. Hello. Hey guys, how you doing? Doing great. Awesome. Welcome to the studio Mike. Thank you. This is not the studio I promised, but it's the studio that I'll accept. Not the one you wanted, but maybe the one you needed. We'll take it. We've got a table, we're sitting around the table. We are at Scott's terrible studio this time. It's the first time we've recorded here. Dan brought the new gear, everything seems like it's working okay. Got the buzz taken care of. Yeah, Dan brought the new gear and the new gear is not what we're using. We're using the old backup gear. Oh, okay. And that's why we bring backups. So we know what we are doing. We are not the amateurs that this podcast will most likely sound like we are. This podcast is going to suck. I feel like I'm the old backup guest. Tell us more about how you feel. Sort of. I mean, so obviously the reason I chose to want to meet in person and make things more complicated is because I just miss having the chance to sit down and have coffee with you guys and just talk to you. Sure, well thanks for showing up with no coffee for me, but that's okay. Wow, that's expensive. We all made our coffee at home and brought it. Scott, here we are at your house. Yeah, okay, well let's get to the housekeeping here. Thanks for making us coffee. Appreciate you guys coming by and recording today, but real quickly just want to get some things out of the way. A reminder for our terrible listeners that if you want to be on the podcast in future episodes, we are booking shows right now. Our email address is podcast at positivelyterrible.com and you can hit us on our social media. We're at Positively Terrible on Facebook and Instagram. So go ahead and send us a message if you are interested in being on. I also wanted to just really quickly mention that we got a really cool email this morning from one of our listeners that touched on a lot of topics that we talk about, trauma of course, but cancer and sobriety and death and divorce relationships. And it was, you know, to get that just a few minutes before we start recording really has me on kind of a high right now. And I just wanted to remind people that, you know, we're doing this to help people out, let people feel and remember they're not alone. And by you contacting us, first, thank you to the listener, but to anyone in the future who wants to help us help our listeners, we'd love to have you on the show. You know, we've got a handful lined up, but we're always looking for more. And like, subscribe and review. All of that stuff. So, Mike, welcome to the podcast for the first time. Thanks for coming. Several years in the making. We've been trying to make this happen for a while. This actually is not my first podcast with Scott, actually. So I don't tell me about how you guys excluded. I don't remember even why I was invited, but it was a Chicago Bears podcast that Scott did out of a strange little podcast hut. It was like they rented space for people to do. Well, no, it was you see everybody downplays the studios. This was a window front studio at six corners at Orange Park. And we were able to broadcast and have our fans walk outside the windows. And then the person who was responsible for that, because it was Internet radio slash podcast. So we would broadcast live on the air, but then we'd release it as a podcast. And this was back when I had that sports blog back in the day. This was many years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I am not even that huge of a Bears fan. I think I was brought in for like some kind of comic relief. Yeah. And I'm not even that funny. It wasn't that good of a podcast. There were less than a dozen listeners, I'd say. Well, football, the Bears were not my big thing. I was more of the baseball guy. It was a it was a general sports podcast. But I'm sure time of year had something to do with the fact that we were talking about the Bears. That podcast is resting in peace and will continue to rest in peace. And I'm sorry you brought that up today. Sorry. No cross promotion there. I'm sure I'll need to talk about the trauma of the Chicago Bears in a couple of months. Yeah. That's a whole nother topic. Yeah. I don't know why we are still Bears fans. Well, I don't know that I am, but I'm not here to talk about that as well. Can I actually. So as a listener and I was the first listener, like when soon as Scott told me this was that I was like, OK, I'm going to go listen. And I was just so impressed, which was not my like, OK, let's see what's going on. That's not what I was going for. And I was like, holy shit. Scott is a really good storyteller and thank you. And he his ability to share something so vulnerable in public was like, OK, if you guys want me, come on. I would be happy to do it because I felt that I had the you know, the I think your story gives other people strength to say, OK, well, I could actually talk about things that were tough. And I don't think that I've actually ever talked to anybody about my story to the degree to which you went over your story. So it brought me to two questions. Well, I have two questions. One, one of this is related. One is not the. T-shirts that you guys are selling are you need a fucking therapist. It was get a fucking get a fucking therapist. OK, we can edit that. And I'm curious, is it to. The listener as like they should get a therapist or is like your podcast, the ability of like acting out therapy. No, this podcast is not therapy. Do not construe it for therapy. Well, I feel like it's therapeutic to talk about the therapeutic to talk about. Well, we don't need a disclaimer. Right. Disclaimer. This is not therapy. I believe in an episode recently that was said maybe that was that was episode three. I'm not sure. Go back and listen. But like and subscribe. The genesis of that is my life is better. I came up with the shirt. Scott does everything else here. I came up with the shirt. And I think the genesis of that is that I feel that my life has improved tremendously with the help of a therapist. And I would encourage everyone who wears my who who who views me while wearing a T-shirt to also acquire themselves a therapist. Yeah, we're certainly not therapists. And I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that anyone who purchases that shirt themselves already has a therapist. So we're not trying to encourage them what we're trying to do with the show. So forget about the shirts. I don't want to go down the road of what we're going to buy the shirts. You can get them right there. But there will be that. Well, that's what I say. I'm not sitting here trying to sell you something. But you can buy it. Overall, our podcast wants. I mean, Dan and I strongly believe in therapy. We think that it does a lot of good in your lives. Not everyone necessarily needs a therapist. But most people, in my opinion, at well, everybody at some point in their lives probably needs therapy. And my reason for stating that was I felt like just the act of telling your story is therapy. And and you do that with a therapist, obviously. But I was curious if there was like a double meaning. Like I said, I let people explore their own thing. Yeah. And it's cathartic for me to tell the story. But for people, it's that listen to these stories. It's to help them know that they're not alone. Since I've started telling my story, I am up to six people, including myself, three of them, three or four in my direct network who have responded with stories about their significant others, double life. And those are stories that I had never heard before. And quite frankly, talking to people every day about trauma and doing it on the show. People are telling me a lot. And people who I know and have known for years have shared stories with me that I've never had shared. I think that the first thing that we want people to do is to know that you shouldn't be ashamed. Shame is one of the biggest, the most toxic feelings that you can get. And everybody has some. And when everything went down with me, there was shame. I did nothing wrong. But there was shame and I didn't want to talk about it. I needed to talk about it. Yeah. And I think it's your I don't know if it's your responsibility necessary, but your ability to help others once you've been through something and feel like you can share methods that led you into a better direction is part of kind of the responsibility of surviving trauma in some degree. Sure. So, Mike, every time you listen, you were just singing our praises, but you like to send me a text that say I'm 14 minutes in and I don't know what this podcast is about. So, yeah, that's where I was going to go to. I came here to just clarify some questions that listeners have. One thing, though, I'm going to keep me on track here before I go to that. Well, we are currently 14 minutes. I was going to say I don't know what this podcast is about. Because I think that. Yes. So you're right. I'm doing exactly what I preach against. But the one thing I want to ask before to the other listeners probably want to know. And if I miss it, I apologize. I cannot figure out what the opening theme song is for you guys. And I tried to jam it and jam had nothing. Oh, great. Thank you for asking that question. So this song is a song that you guys preplan that. I did not. I swear to God. And I've like I've listened to lyrics. I'm like, I think this is really cool. And I can't find it. This is a song I had commissioned by a writer. His name is Rob. He goes by Rob Taxpayer. And he is from the band, the Taxpayers. It's a band that my ex and I listened to and is one of my favorite bands. Actually, probably of the bands I have not had the opportunity to see live. That's the one that's like, man, I want to see these guys. But about five years ago, it was twenty eighteen. And I saw that he posted on Facebook that he would write songs for people. So that song is actually called The Spree. It is about me meeting my ex-wife. And it's our story. So met you back at Tonica Fest. Tonica is where I grew up. Tonica Fest is where we met. I offered you a spree. You declined. That literally happened. So I had free the candy. Well, now I feel like an idiot typing in like squirted you in the face with a water gun lyrics and then just getting nothing. Well, we're going to how much time do you think you spent looking for? I mean, I'm not kidding. Shazam put four different songs that it thought it was. And I went through all the lyrics. This is not the right song. Well, we have gotten that question a lot. And it's something that I have wanted to tell that story. So thank you for Tina. We're open it back in here. All right. But we're now at 16 minutes. That song will be available for download on our Patreon in the near future. Yeah, we're getting our patron banners all set up and probably within the next week, I'll be able to get that out there. But Mike, you are here today. The intro said to talk a little bit about the chaotic nature of being diagnosed with cancer as a teen. So how old were you when you were diagnosed with cancer? So I was 18. And what type was it? Acute lymphoblastic leukemia was the eventual clinical diagnosis. Originally, they said non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. And really the differentiator between the two is when it's found in your bone marrow. So a bone marrow biopsy revealed that there were cancerous cells, which makes it leukemia. Got it. In the bone marrow. Yes, exactly. So once you have the yeah, that's what the differentiator. So I assume that's not good news as a different. I mean, so, yeah, it's a I think it's a there's a there's a different variance of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and lymphomas and leukemias. But I think leukemia, the big difference when it's involved in the bone marrow is more often than not. A bone marrow transplant is likely the outcome. And I don't know if this stuff is still the same today. And I don't know the same things happened then. This was in the year 2000. So this was a long time ago. OK, so why? Why did you get tested? I mean, what was going on in your life? So something was wrong. Yeah. And so I'd say that all my senior year when I was 18, I felt. Not well, there was a lot of things that I thought about, like might be contributing factors like bad decisions on drinking or smoking cigarettes or like just like God punishing me for bad decisions. The Catholic guilt chiming in there. What kind of kid were you? What kind of kid? Yeah, I felt like I was goofy to some degree, but I also like thought I was really cool, but probably was trying too hard to be cool in social outgoing. Very class clowny, like distractible. Yeah. Like trying to be friends with girls and thought that that would actually help me have a relationship with them. And then to some degree it did not help. I didn't understand the whole friend zone thing, but I hung out with like a crew that was, I think, trying to be more advanced than our age were in terms of in Kentucky. That seemed to happen sooner than a lot of people that I later discussed in life in terms of like drinking was, you know, I felt like I was a well seasoned drinker by the time I was in a senior in high school. Where some people don't start till college. Was that pretty common in your high school? Very. Yes. Very. I would say. Yeah, most people was starting to drink freshman year in high school, sophomore year in high school. And it was pretty similar in mine as well. I didn't start until I was like in college myself. So I just felt kind of crummy to some degree, but and part of that was also that I was taking Accutane. What's that for? Accutane is a very controversial. I don't even know if it's still prescribed. Maybe it is, but man, I have to sign a waiver. But it's like a very controversial acne medication. And there was later on after my diagnosis where they said that Accutane might have actually slowed down the development of my cancer, which I don't know if that's good or bad. But it made it more elongated because acute lymphoblastic leukemia is very aggressive and very quick. And this might have like delayed that or made things slower in terms of its growth. I don't understand the medical aspect of that, but it was a I felt like it was a tough year. And I lasted literally a week in college before and I would go to the I'd go to the health clinic every day because something is wrong. We have to get tested. I'd go. So what were they saying? No, I got misdiagnosed so many times they were like, hey, you probably should try a different shampoo because I had these like half size golf ball nodules on my head. Like, oh, try this different Neutrogena shampoo. And nobody thought to biopsy it or take blood. And so I would continually go back at different medications. And I think like one of the tipping points was I was playing tennis and I got stung by a bee and my my forearm swelled up like a baseball. And just because my immune system was so shot by that point. So eventually I got the bright person at my college that decided, hey, let's biopsy that send it into the lab. Turns out I had stage four acute lymphoplastic leukemia. X-rays would then show that I had an eight inch tumor affixed to my lungs and heart inside my mediastinal tumor. And then all the rest was just the lymph nodes from the blood. So it wasn't actually like I had tumors in my head or anything. It was all the blood. All right. So you're you're in your first year of college. First year college. How close to like your family were you like geographically? Did you go to two and a half hours away? So you're on your own for your first time, not unreasonably far away. Did you feel like you were starting to go through this alone or were they did they come and see you? I mean, it's a very almost as soon as we packed up there, we were unpacked, going back, going home, back home. So and. Again, this everything felt very surreal when the whole diagnosis happened, however, no, my parents were super supportive and like coming to get me. And when you were diagnosed, you said, well, I'm sorry, you said that you were on your way back almost as soon as you got there. Were you already diagnosed when. OK, so you're not feeling well, you're getting different recommendations that aren't very helpful and not feeling yourself. So you head back to. So they figure out that it's cancer at college. OK, and then there was like the more formal diagnosis. I had to go visit a specialist. Yeah. So we went and visited a specialist later and that's when they start talking like, well, what's the course of treatment like this is very aggressive. And ultimately there had been cases that have proven that people were able to survive long term without a bone marrow transplant. And a bone marrow transplant has at that point in time like a 10 percent mortality rate where you might not survive. So we decided to get the the regular chemo and radiation brain radiation treatment in hopes that that would take care of things. OK, so what was it like? I mean, can you tell us the scenario of like when the doctors said that you had cancer? So, yes. So when that when I got that, that was when we went and saw the specialist where they really I knew it was cancer, but I didn't know to the extent and what they showed me with like the inside. Oops, sorry. The it felt like everything was surreal. Like I was part of a movie or like it was like Truman Show where I was like, I'm in this like weird fake narrative. Like what is going on? Like, it didn't feel real. And I went and I felt like I was a guy that was always like looking for symbols or like things from the universe. And I like first of all, I guess I should have said I was pissed. Probably should have started there. Like I remember throwing rocks at the building because I was like, fuck you guys. Very angsty. I was a very angsty teenager for some reason. I just felt a lot of internal angst. And I went out and I just like left the hospital by myself, went walking, abandoned my poor mom there at the doctor. And I remember going like into a Barza Noble and like looking up in the cancer books and it said there like this is a survivable cancer. And I remember taking that away like I had some kind of message sent to me. I did not think that I had never thought of the idea that you're 18 ish. You get diagnosed with cancer and you don't have the Internet the way we have it today to go and both, you know, give you information like that, but also to make you. I mean, look, when we're sick and we look it up online, usually you think you have cancer anyway. So this would have been the time that would have been possibly helpful. We could find support groups. You can find more information, the good and the bad. But you're a little more alone at this time in our. So I'm really glad you acknowledge that because that is somewhere where this will. This is actually where my story takes takes a course of its own. And it was because I would go and look for other people that had the same thing I had through AOL chat rooms. Nice. So when was this like 2000 ish? 2000. OK. Yep. And so I would actually go and look for like different types of there were like groups where people talked about cancer. And I would try to find individuals that had something I had to get more information and learn about it. And I met a few people like or I started conversations with people through through America online. And it was super weird. There was one that actually a girl from Michigan who we started chatting a lot because we were both younger and forged a friendship. And I actually eventually went up and met her. Nice. But, yeah, that wasn't as pervasive. So I don't think people remember a time when you just didn't Google everything. Right. You know, we're going to teach the some of our listeners probably today about Internet forums and aim. It's a messenger back then. So when you were diagnosed, you took off, you know, maybe take off, took off is a strong way of putting it. But you needed some alone time. It sounds like. Yeah. So I think my whole thing was, is that like. My my mentality was if I'm going to if this is going to happen, it's not I'm not going to go quietly like this is one of my favorite songs at the time was a Neil Young song where the lyric I'm trying to remember the name, but the lyric was it's better to burn out than to fade away. And I was like, yeah, we're going to I'm going to go down in flames at this. And so I was very loud and wanted, you know, I, I felt like I wanted attention and I was going to start videoing everything that happened to me because I was the first person in the world to ever get cancer. And I had a story and I was unique and I wanted to be heard and noticed and all of those things. So I began my pilgrimage into filmmaking to try and tell my story, which actually wasn't very super unique. But to me, it was. Well, in your processing at this point. Exactly. And you're 18 and you don't know, like you said, there's not the Internet. You can't just go or not the Internet in the way it is today. So in a way, it is unique because you don't have that shared experience that you can pretty easily go YouTube dot com and find other people who have done some of the stuff. And when you're 18, like everything is still about you. Like you're still the main character in all of your understanding of the world. Yeah, I was pretty cool at 18. Yeah, I thought I thought I was, too. And I thought I was fucking awesome. You do it. It's so funny. I look at like, you know, 25 year olds. I'm like, you guys don't know anything. I'm like 18. You really don't know anything. But yeah, when you when you're 18, you think you know everything. Without a doubt. And it's the older I get, the more I understand how little I understand everything. Like the wealth of knowledge about every topic is so massive. Like the more you understand, the more you realize you really don't understand. And how sure I was that I knew exactly what I was talking about when I was 18. And I think it's because high school itself presents like your world is so limited. Just to understand how that world works was enough to think that that's how everything is. Right. And being unable to see beyond that world is what is why you think you know everything. Because you just are so attuned only to the politics and the dynamics of that little universe. Yeah. And the whole time you have, you know, family, friends, supportive people telling you how you're going to be great and how you're doing wonderful. And I'm not saying that that's wrong. I think that's great. But as you grow, at least as I have grown, man, I continue to learn a lot more. I felt like I had family that was telling me, OK, these are things you should be doing. I'm like, no, I know what I'm doing. Yes, that too. So you said that you if you were going to go, you're going to go down in flames, I think is how you put it or something similar. I wasn't going to go quietly. I wasn't necessarily like it wasn't, you know, a death wish or me trying to do things that would be putting myself in a bad place, per se. I was more like I need to be heard. So did you think that you were going to survive? That's a great question. So I never actually I would say yes, I never actually thought. About not surviving, even though my behavior would probably say otherwise, but I always felt like I was going to survive. I don't know, I never thought about the end of what that would that would mean. And now, in retrospect, I realize that. Like I would have thought at that time, like I lived this complete life and so much experience, and I always use that as kind of like, well, hey, I'm glad I'm 18. I'm glad I'm not a kid that's should be playing t-ball now. And that was what broke my heart is when there were, you know, childhood cancer, people going through that treatment that that's like medieval and there they should be enjoying their childhood. I felt like I lived a full life. And then I now I know how wrong I was. There's so much more. But I felt grateful for that. And I felt like, you know, if I did die, I felt like at least I wasn't, you know, I did things not going to die a virgin, at least. Have you ever talked about to your to your parents about how they felt? So this this goes into some some weird places here, because as I was going through cancer, my parents were as literally after my diagnosis, my parents went through a divorce or started a lot worse. Yeah. So not only was like I very angsty and, you know, dramatic about the whole cancer thing, I was having a hard time processing why there was this, you know, disruption of my parents relationship and how that affected me, I don't think was was very good at that at that time. I felt very disturbed by that. It sounds hard. Yeah. I mean, that sounds kind of oversimplifying things. This thing sounds hard, but I can't really imagine it were. Do you think that you were more upset by by your diagnosis or your parents relationship ending? Or do you think it was just kind of compounding and all all one one era of your life at this point? So the self absorption is so high for for an 18 year old or for, you know, for the next couple of years I was in treatment, I I really didn't pay much attention to like what they're going through. I just basically blame my dad and was like, that's that's basically it. My mom is an angel and my dad is for for wanting to get a divorce or whatever cause it. He is to blame 100 percent. And that's the end of that. So, yeah, I felt like I I compartmentalized it in a place that I probably didn't really even give it much attention. Yeah. I mean, you said self absorption, but I think a lot of, you know, young adults are are self absorbed. But for you, I mean, how I can't put myself in your shoes. I can't sit here and say that I wouldn't be self absorbed today if I had cancer. I mean, I might sit here. I maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I would. But I'm not going to blame anyone who at 18 or 38 or 48 who is, you know, kind of oblivious to the outside world when you're sitting there with a diagnosis of cancer. And like what stage was it? Stage four. And that was so how they determined the stage through x-rays or just. Yeah, the extent of how how how bad it is, I guess. And so I do I did talk negatively about my dad in one after the aspect of the whole divorce situation. But I do remember specifically a time when the doctor came in and said, like, you know, your son has like a 50 percent chance to live. And my dad took him out in the hallway and just reamed him for saying that in front of me, like like, how dare you put like this thought that he's not going to make it like that. We don't talk percentages. I remember having a lot of admiration for my dad in that moment, thinking that that was really cool that he he stood up for me. So this whole this whole outreach thing that I mentioned, the the the finding people online, I started to go out and I. I think it was I think it was the employer that I worked for at the time I worked at a barbecue restaurant. And I think that he. I started talking to different people and decided that I wanted to get a video camera, so like I got like a high eight video camera donated to me and now. High eight is a old kind of tape. Yes, there's a specialized kind of tape just for that was only used in like a handheld camcorders. Exactly. I wanted to go out and interview other people that had cancer and eventually somehow got an article written in the Courier Journal, which was like the Louisville newspaper. And then a guy that I work with, like emailed somebody else. And all of a sudden I was getting connected with a famous Hollywood screenwriter. Oh, wow. Who is fresh off the very hot movie at the time called Traffic, and he was from Louisville, Steven Gagin. So I got connected with a Hollywood director, screenwriter and started to correspond with said Hollywood. And so the amount of focus on my parents divorce was very little as I'm thinking more about, you know, I'm a pretty big time guy. Your rise to the top. Yeah. I mean, are you sitting there thinking more about the fame that this is going to bring you or I mean, is that is that your escape? So less fame, but like thinking that I have this unique story and my in this audience and a vestibule to deliver it. And I, again, knowing nothing about actually making a movie or not even being necessarily having a story at that point, just the diagnosis. I see a lot of parallels between this and Scott's delusions of grandeur and podcast. So Dan's the one who wanted to. So, yeah, I mean, to to have a connection like that happen at that time felt like a weird type of fulfillment, even though nothing had really happened or I hadn't done anything like. Like sounds like another big sign from the universe. Yes. Yeah. It felt like not everybody that gets cancer has, you know, all of a sudden correspondence with somebody that's actively. Yeah, for sure. You know, I mean, making making Hollywood movies. Right. And now you're sitting at my dining room table in front of some Mike. So it did kind of work out. Yeah. Another step up. Spoiler alert. This is as far as I've made it. So the one aspect. So obviously, you know, this will all come full circle eventually. But the one aspect that was kind of not brought up during this moment or this this this diagnosis was the amount of drugs I was on in terms of cancer drugs and the big drug for leukemia. Is prednisone, which is a corticosteroid. So not a good kind of steroid. And I've never done cocaine ever in my life. But I imagine it to be somewhat like the high from a steroid. And I wasn't on like a pedestrian amount of steroids. I was on like crazy amounts. Like what if like if they give you normally 10 milligrams and that makes people go crazy. I was on like 150. Wow. So very high ups, very bottom, bottom lows. And within this like whole dynamic I had with this filmmaker, it was, you know, hey, do you want to come out to Toronto? I'm making a movie like you could be a part of that. Like just the no, I don't want to do that. Like this. I'm like, I'm really low, really manic, like thoughts and process. But then, you know, thinking about me not having hair and like meeting somebody. I was not. But then I'd like message him at like 4 a.m. that I said, OK, maybe I could like just not having any type of sensibility in terms of like who I'm talking to or like could I be bothering. Right. So that kind of emotional roller coaster, roller coaster is the perfect word was very detrimental to like this good natured person who wanted to reach out to somebody from his hometown with cancer. Who's like this person is way, way over the edge. I did not want this is not what I signed up for type thing. And I remember like calling him. I had his number and everything. I called him at like a time that was like didn't consider a California time. I was like it just was weird. And you have his number now. Let's go. He's actually behind that door. But no. So is one of those things. So then. So this like good thing that was like awesome, cool opportunity thing. I ended up like self-sabotaging because I was just. I was like, oh, you win the drugs like you're not understate the. Yeah. And I still had while you were that pumped up and I and I think things have changed now. I don't think it's it's quite the same in terms of what people need to do. Like the prednisone is like a miracle drug in so many senses for leukemia or was. But again, I would say out of anything like pain wise or like things that I went through that were hard pale in comparison to what this drug did to me mentally. Wow. Yeah. Was this a standard treatment or was this part of trying to avoid the bone marrow transplant? It was part of the standard treatment prior to the bone marrow transplant. So it's like I did like a six month regimen and there's a lot of chemo and then there was brain radiation. So there was both brain radiation for there's like what they called sanctuary sites where both your you could if you're going to have a relapse, it's going to happen like in your brain or your testicles. So you get brain radiation. They don't give you testicular radiation because that's like boom, you're going to be zapped. You're not going to be able to have kids and all those things. So they don't do that for that reason. But I did end up at that point in time, even though angsty, steroidal, all of these things, Mike, they I was talked into putting sperm in a sperm sperm bag, whatever. Not as glamorous a thing as you would think. Can you share a little more about that? Yeah, I will. This is something people want to know about. But so at this point in time, remember, we don't have like Internet streaming, very low quality. Right. I there's a VHS. I go into a little room with a VHS of smut magazines and VHS is put something on. You can hear people walking around the medical facility, medical facility with a little like a little convertible VHS TV, small or the combo. Exactly. Not even HD at this point. Oh, no. Oh, these kids don't even know they have. I don't know who donated these videos. But yeah. And you put it on and you jerk off into a cup. This. I'm so happy to know that somewhere there's a line item on a hospital like budget that is for. Yeah, it was it was super weird and I didn't want to do it at first. I had not the jerking off part, but the like, I don't want to give pass on this the shitty DNA to my next. You know, why would I do that? Why would I put anybody through what I'm going through? And so I just felt very much like, no, I'm not going to do this. But they're like, you should do it. You have time later to think about it, just the least before we start drilling you with all this chemo, like do it and have it. So so we did. When you say that they're saying that who is the medical professionals or your parents? Medical professionals. Yeah, I think my parents are pretty much like, let let me figure things out. So it wasn't like my mom was like, oh, we need grandkids or anything. It was medical people. So, you know, you should you should really consider doing this because even if you change your mind in the future, you'll have something. Or or because they want to charge you for it. There you go. And it was not it's that is not not cheap, by the way. It's very expensive to keep stuff frozen for which we think put in the freezer. How hard that is very overpriced. So to just take it at home with me and kept it in. Oh, yeah. I mean, you get charged, what, four bucks for an ad bill. So not a surprise. So, yeah. So I did that. And again, yes, I eventually did that happen. Back up a little. Sure. Did that happen at a hospital? Did you have to go to a specialized facility for that? There I think it was a specialized facility. Did you go by yourself or did like I went by myself? Nope, I went by myself. There was no definitely no mom involved. Did she know when you were going like, hey, mom, I'm going to. Sure. Yeah, I think so. But no, imagine the car ride home. 100 percent. Remember going by myself. Exactly what just happened. Yeah. Yeah. There's no like walk of shame out from the from the jerk off room into. Yeah. So again, not fun as as fun as you would think as an 18 year old. Sounds about as fun as I think I think. So. Yeah. So fast forward and then we're going to get into the good stuff now. Time. Yeah, that's what I'm here. You know, I went through I went through treatment for that six month treatment. I went back to college and two years later when I was I thinking things were going pretty well for me. I had a relapse in one of those sanctuary sites, which was my testicle. So at that point in time, once once it's back and it was back, I had obviously had to have an orchiectomy, which is having a testicle removed, which when I was earlier, we were saying testes one, two. I was saying, well, you were saying I was saying testes one and then that's like two. But no one. I had no idea. Yes. All time I've known you. Yeah. I had one testicle. Yeah. You'd think that would come up so much sooner. Yeah. I'm surprised your wife didn't tell me this. Oh, Julie, not not something that you shout out. But yeah, no, I that's how I had a relapse. And so that talk about trauma. You know, I'm a twenty one at this point. And, you know, there I thought I went through the worst of it like this to me way worse than anything else. Like I mean, we skipped ahead. I jumped a lot. And interesting everything. I'm glad we got to that part. But like. How long was your treatment? And at the end, I mean, were you told you were cancer free? Yeah. Yeah. So I went into remission. You go into remission kind of quick when with this aggressive treatment. And just because you're in remission doesn't mean you're done with treatment. You continue on with, you know, extensive the six month course and then you are on maintenance drugs. So it's like a long process. So but I went into remission and cancer free. Did you have the bone marrow transplant? No, at this time? No. So at this point, like I said, they wanted to do like instead of putting you in a situation where you're, you know, die, we're going to do this other thing. And people do survive from it and like are good. So let's try that. So we did that. And they said that to one or two sanctuary sites. So it came back. And then that's when like you're out of options. When it comes back, is it more dangerous? Like my mom had, I believe it was endometrial cancer. And luckily it was found very early and taken care of surgery, no chemo, anything like that. But she was told, you know, if this comes back, this is going to come back hard. And is it the same for the leukemia you had? Was it? Does it get riskier if it gets worse? Does it get riskier if it goes into remission and then comes back later? No, I don't think so. I think it's the you're dealing with the same devil. It's just that in terms of long term survival, there's only at that point, the only option is to do a bone marrow transplant, it's going to come back at that point. So if it comes back again, or I'm sorry, comes back the first time, is it still stage four? No. Okay. I would say that that point is no. And so that's a great comment, because there is argument to be had that had I gone into a bone marrow transplant at the time when things were really, really bad, that I wouldn't have had the resources to survive in that case. So at this point in time, when I had my relapse, I had been healthy for two years, I felt much stronger, I felt very more capable of being able to take on something like the bone marrow transplant. So I felt you could be argued that that saved my life to be able to go through that initial treatment. Your body might not have been able to take the bone marrow transplant. Correct. So even if it was only a delay to the inevitable bone marrow transplant, it was worth it. So when you were diagnosed then the second time, when it comes back, I mean, I know when you have cancer, you just said the treatment doesn't stop necessarily, and you get checked for periodically. Did you feel sick? No. Okay. So you're still going through… Conversely, the first time when I got diagnosed, it was a relief because I'd felt so sick. The second time, it was more like, what is this M&M size bump on my testicle? And like, is this happening again? And I did not feel sick at that time at all. Peanut or regular? Peanut. Okay. Yeah. And how did it feel when it was re-diagnosed? Did the anger come back? Were you pissed about it? Or was it like, this is the thing I want to take care of, we'll beat this thing again? It felt more of… I'm not happy, obviously, I'm not angry. Like, the anger was gone at that point. But it felt more like, I can't believe this is happening again. Okay. And the anger about the testicle particularly, forget the cancer, that was at a raging high. Because it was all about, for a young 21-year-old, there's so much of the masculinity involved in that. And just, like you said, the… What's the word I'm looking for? The one-nut crock? John, you know, everybody knows one-nut crock, John Crock. I don't know anything about that. All right, well, I'm just saying… Former baseball player, baseball announcer. You talk about balls all the time. It's not shame, but it's embarrassment, or it's… I never thought I would actually talk to people about it. And I really haven't. As you mentioned, I don't really talk about it. It's a podcast exclusive. There you go. It's just one of those things that it kind of really challenges your masculinity. Does it still? No, not at all. And honestly, so that's the best part of, like, you have this idea that it's like, everything functions the same. Right. There's a reason you have two… Your other nut just works really hard. It steps up. That's the occasion, rises to the occasion, so to speak. But yeah, so it's very much overblown in terms of, like, the macho talk with guys and all that stuff. So it really affects my life very little. Now, I know… I don't know if this is a recent development in human history, but they have, like… Like, you can get your dog prosthetic testicles now. Yes, so… Was that a thing then? Yeah, no, that's called a nutical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. So I asked about that. And again, it's that that's the young person thinking that that's something that you need. And the doctor is like, you're just opening yourself up to more, like, potential problems. Like, there's no need for that. I've always wondered why you had truck nuts on your car, but… I don't have a truck nor the nuts on my car. Yeah, no, it's… Yeah, it's… I don't know. If I could go back and I'm thinking about, like, everything that I went through, like, that was the one thing that I thought was going to be this huge deal and it's just not. Okay, so you get it, it comes back, it's roaring back. You have your testicle removed. What other treatment? I mean, I know we're leading up to… So this is all this is all this is where and again, this is where the rubber meets the road on this story is because at this point, I need a bone marrow transplant. And there's a ramp up to that. And part of it is testing to see if your sibling is a match or not. Because you know, you got the mom's a salt shaker, dad's a pepper shaker, you got to get both of those sprinkled together to get that match. It can't be your parents, it's got to be a sibling. And my sister was not a match. So then I need to find a match from the, you know, universal donor list, which people who have genetic markers that are going to be similar enough to do that bone marrow transplant. So this is very important because people can join this list or be a bone marrow on the bone marrow transplant registry. And they might think that you need to like do something painful. No, you just it's a blood test, they can they can find the genetic markers in the blood. So I highly encourage if there's ever an opportunity for people to join that to do so. How would they go about doing that? Yeah, I think it's a good thing to be involved in because if I wanted to say, hey, I'm going to do a blood bone marrow drive or something. It's costly. It's interesting. Okay. Or you need to be able to bring a certain amount of people to the table. Okay, so just to be clear, getting jumped off. And just to be clear, when you're saying it's expensive, you mean it's expensive to put on an event? Yes, it's not expensive for me, Scott, to go in and say, I want to be tested. Is that what it is? Do they just test it? Or is it more like blood where they actually take and keep Sam keeps them? I literally have no idea. At risk of sharing outdated data. Okay, so which is potentially true, because again, it's been a while. Sure. It costs you money. If you wanted to go in and say I wanted to join it costs like $75 or something like that. So you look for opportunities to when people are having these blood drives, we're gonna cost you anything. Cool. We'll find some info. We'll figure this out. Okay, together. But that's a big, big takeaway is there's a lot of people you can help because I ended up having a matched unrelated donor. And that's why I'm here today. Somebody was in that position to join this registry. And that's, that's the only reason I'm alive today. It's awesome. They are not behind the door. Funny story to note. Yeah. And I, if this has happened in a crime scene show, I have not seen it. But I think I think I did hear that there might have happened. So you think you might have heard that it might have somebody I don't know, I felt like I said this once before, like, Oh, that's happened. Like, I'm okay, I'll take your word for it. Okay. So listeners take it with a grain of salt. I originally had a match who was paired up all set to go. They said nobody ever backs out. And my match was a female. And if they would have gone through, they ended up backing out, which never happens. But they if we would have gone through, my genetic markers would say I'm female, in terms of a blood test, even though I'm not. So So in Florida, you might have some real legal liability over where you could use the restroom. That or if I were ever involved in any type of crime, they would be looking for I would be never they would never think that it could be me. Because it's it's blood. It's it's blood type blood marker. Yeah, I mean, okay, it wouldn't affect my gender in any other way except for this little marker. And the person ended up backing out and I ended up getting another one. And so I'm still all You still have to live in a state of crime. I was going to totally turn into a life crime. Alright, so we are not therapists and he's not a medical professional. So look this up before you go telling This is true, though. It is true. I know that. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you said that it was that you weren't sure. No, I don't know if it's happened in an episode. Oh, I don't know. I don't know if there's ever been a CSI That makes a lot more sense. I think in the we're throwing shit out there that is like Mike say, maybe this possibly could happen. That's just my inability to like tell a story. I think it's more Scott's inability to like comprehend the story. I just thought our quality Yeah, no, I just don't know if it's been done in a Hollywood or like a television production. Okay, well, that's probably not important. So when you realize that you need a bone marrow transplant, your sibling tests and is not a match. Then what happens next? So like I said, they had gone through all they have like a donor registry and they're looking for all these DNA markers and they've you know, they found a match that match ended up. So it's backing out which was a bad thing because we want to get this done as soon as possible, but then we get another one thankfully. And then it's to the point where you're scheduling and is it's all a bone marrow transplant is is you're getting high dosage of chemotherapy and radiation so that all of your immune system, including the cancer cells are killed. And that's why it's dangerous and or you could die is because your body doesn't have the ability to fight off any infections or bacteria or you know, you have no immune system. So all they do it's a you go through the chemo or for me at least I went through full body radiation, large doses of chemotherapy and then you're in a secluded unit for this to stay away from any type of outer type of I'm talking my hand. So that's what happens outer type of outside germs or bacteria and then they give you when you're at the lowest point they give you a blood transfusion of the healthy donors blood and then our stem cells as you could say. And that those that blood filters through and then proliferates and starts regrowing and regenerating in your body hopefully with minimal adverse reactions like which like because it's your body is going to fight against it seeing it as foreign. But hopefully it's similar enough where it will take and proliferate exactly and start growing as your own. One of the major things from bone marrow transplants is graft versus host disease and graft versus host disease and that's where you have bad reactions from your body rejecting the new found organ or donor blood or stem cells. So when you're going through radiation and chemo and there I mean you're just are you just completely isolated. So I stayed on a bone marrow transplant unit is probably around I mean I made my way around like the units itself I would say maybe 30 people. OK 30 30 beds 30 rooms or these are these are other patients other patients where they're in again there's like a door and then there's a middle area and there's another door. So it's like you can't just come in you need to. Yeah. When when we would transport as a paramedic long ago when we transport somebody from an area like that like you'd have to get a gown on you'd have to get a mask on before you walked in the door and the doors were locked. So it would limit the amount of people that would come in. And then whenever we would bring a patient out of that they had to be in full gown mask before they went outside of that ward to go anywhere else. Exactly. Were your parents allowed in there. Yes. So obviously with their parents are going to be masked up and everything. But yeah they're allowed to be a part of it at least for the most majority. How long were you there. I was in the hospital from September 30th to I want to say December 30th or 31st. I was released from the hospital not because I was better and ready to go thrive on the outside world because I was like going insane because it was such a small confined space like it was I needed to get out or I was like going crazy. It was like 90 days. It was. Yeah. So it was I had to get out. And so they had met we rented a like a small apartment. Me and my mom and my mom stayed with me to be a caretaker. And obviously steroids are a big part of this going crazy again steroids more more craziness. They gave us like equipment to take home but I just need to get out of there. I was going nuts just because we just felt like prison. So they determined that the potential physical risks might have been less than the mental health. Yeah I think I think I had this one doctor or I know I have this one doctor particularly. She's I think she said well he's going to be OK enough to let him do let let him go. And I think it's going to be better for him to leave at this point. So did you have to stay in this apartment though. Yeah. Stayed mostly in the apartment. Very limited outer exposure. But I had been through like over the hump so to speak of the risks. I had been multiple like you said. Well what did it feel like stepping out. I mean was it excitement or relief or just. So you know just relief. OK. And you know I had I had glossed over the fact that the second second act or the second part of the whole cancer thing was like me picking back up with my high eight camera and trying to like document the bone marrow transplant. And holy God I got met with so many people that didn't want anything for me to do with it. Like I'm like oh what are all these documentaries I see where people are like get free access and every like every nobody wanted to be on camera. Everybody was talking about HIPAA laws and just like nobody wanted to like support this idea that I had. But it didn't stop me from like doing what it like you know trying to keep camera focused on myself and my my story. And it's it's funny that I it I have the footage and I've never watched it. Is that is that is that the DVD. That's the DVD I brought today. I ended up getting all the high eights later in life. I had all the high eights converted to DVDs and I've never watched them. I do know that it's terrible content though. For sure. That is not that is not question. And you know what the best part about it was is that my preoccupation with doing this and making this making these videos I spent all my time thinking about that and not about dying and not about thinking about the cancer. And that distraction could have potentially saved my life. I'm going to say that might be more valuable than any other thing. Oh for sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean not not making it to the point where it's on a you know an HBO series or or coming into a movie made about my life. But just that act of of of being busy. Yeah. Through that period of time gave me something to hope for something to strive for. And and really did probably make a huge difference I think. I didn't go into it thinking that but now I'm looking back at it like the fact that I've never done anything with these tapes doesn't really matter to me because that I'm here. But that was that was it. And I got out. And again I was crazy and it was a tough time for my family and my mom who stayed. My mom was like the most amazing caregiver. My dad was also around. He did get remarried while I was in the hospital during the bone marrow transplant. Wow. Yes. There was a time when I was not happy about that. Everything has been settled and it's good. And my mom is happy. My dad is happy. Everybody's happy. Family family is good. There's no hard feelings anymore. But it was a tough time to be in the hospital and thinking that your dad's getting remarried and you're not there. I believe that. Yeah I believe that. There's a lot to dive into. Yeah. I don't think we're going to. No not today. So they I mean they let you out. And when you say they let you out this was you said you were over the hump. Does that mean that that was after the transplant. Yes. So like I'm saying so you know the transplant itself or whatever the day zero was September 30th. Oh OK. It was. I'm sorry. I thought that that's what they call it day zero to the day one two three. You're starting a new life essentially. So you get to 90 days they let you out. You're not in great shape. No. But it's the best thing for you at that time. Yes. At what point do they declare like you're cancer free. I mean are you already cancer free at this point and just recovering or are there still testing and is there still unsure of the results. So at that point I'm still you know I've got a catheter you know Hickman catheter and there's like things there's drugs I need to take in. That's a port on your chest on my chest right. As of a catheter and yeah not. Yes. To give you medication. Exactly. You're making the blood take make the blood draws easier and giving you medicine easier. So I have you know this on my my chest and it's just everything continued like I was in the hospital at home for a while until I reached a point where I'd done all the different courses and it's OK to move on to the next step. So I don't know in terms of when they say I'm cancer free at that point but I just know that there was like continued we continued on the course from this apartment and again the the effects of the steroids were the worst part for me just in terms of my mental capacity. Sure. Was there a point when you were like I beat us quite honestly there was a point where I said in the first time in my entire dealing with cancer where I said I give up and there was a time where I said I don't have anything left. I don't have any more to fight. I don't have anything left to give and I just prayed that I would would would survive because I felt like I had nothing left and that was probably those before the January when I got out or you know the end of December I got out. It was somewhere I went from feeling like a million bucks going into the treatment thinking I can do this I've got my camera we're going to be fine and at some point within the next 60 days I felt just gone. Wow. And yeah I felt like I was not in a good place and I thought it was like I can't I don't know if I can make it. And then I did survive and went continued on my way of trying to get more attention and I wrote Chipotle. I wrote them and I said you know it's Thanksgiving and I haven't eaten real food in several weeks because I'm on this prenatal nutrition thing where I'm getting my food through the IV and I said you know it'd be really cool if I could get some burritos. I'm like going to be able to eat at some point pretty soon and. Is this a physical letter at this point or is the internet. An email. Okay. This is an email. Yeah 2003. Yeah we got email was around emails around. OK. Email and and the news came out because I'm a feel good news story and they gave me like a deck of playing cards with each one was a free burrito like 52 burritos. Was it. No you say it like like a deck of play or was it. No. Playing cards. An actual deck of playing cards except. I need pictures. Do you have pictures. I have that one card left. OK. I'll go get a burrito. It wasn't actually like you can't play cards with these but they were formed like a deck of cards. OK. And each one was a free burrito. So more like baseball cards or a Pokemon deck. No more like playing cards but without you can't play cards because each one is a free burrito. It's not like you got a two three is just one free burrito on every card. So you're going to give out 52 cards package it like a deck of cards make them all coupons. Was each coupon unique or different. Or the only one was one free burrito and they gave me a different like if I looked at two two different coupons would they look the same. Yes they're identical playing cards that are identical. OK. When you said they were playing cards I thought you meant that they literally had a two and a three and a four. So if you're going to pack them is a deck a deck of free burritos. And that's why I said more like baseball cards because you don't play baseball cards. They're just pictures. Right. It's a deck that looks like playing cards except every single one one burrito. OK. So you got 52 burritos. Did you eat all of the burritos. So here's the thing. What. This is where. And I hope this if we can find this one this would be great. OK. So I got so fucking pissed off because I hadn't eaten in a long time. And like the idea of getting like a burrito would be just like mind blowingly great. Thanksgiving. I'm trying to hand out these free burrito cards on the hospital. And there's people that are declining me. OK. A bone marrow transfer transplant patient trying to give out free burritos and like no we're good. Like you motherfucker. I haven't eaten in a goddamn month. And you are like I don't feel like a burrito. Fuck you. So do you still like. So I got this on camera. Of me. Just going ape shit. People. Didn't declining my burritos. Mike has a very angsty person. It sounds like it did. So how do you feel about Chipotle today. So the best part was is I I actually liked Qdoba better. But they didn't have Qdoba in the city I was in. So Chipotle was the the backup. That was Chipotle just like I loved Qdoba. I love Qdoba. Like Chipotle was just like here kid here's 52 free burritos. Leave us alone. Or were they trying to. Was it was there some kind of. So here's the best part is I have this. They gave me a certificate that said like master burrito ambassador. And it was framed a framed certificate. And I have that hanging up at my work right now. Can you send us a picture. And I occasionally get comments on it. And then I just make something up. I don't really tell him like the real story. I just say I'm like really really like burritos. I mean all of this sounds worth it except the cancer part. No this. I'm willing to say on Mike's behalf that cancer was totally worth it to be a master burrito ambassador. You got a good story. You got a certificate. You got a deck of cards that you can't play. What more. I mean you've reached the pinnacle of burrito ambassadory. It's pretty cool I got to say. And now you're on a podcast. But I looked it up recently like when I got you know it started a new job. And I thought like well everybody else has these certificates hanging up. I only got a burrito master certificate. So I just said hey I'm hanging up my cue. And I looked it up and I was like it was a thing they did. And the only other person that I've seen that has like the certificate was like a relief pitcher in the major league baseball. And I don't know why that's the only one that's Googleable. But I was like hey well we're in good company. I think you need to start a Reddit for that. Yeah. Are there any other burrito ambassadors out there. And how did you get dubbed so. Well I think to bring a full circle it needs to be on AOL right. Yeah. So the AOL chat rooms. That was crazy. And there's people like I said that we don't really necessarily talk today. But yeah that was there's the modern day Immermans Angels which is a charity that I support and part of where they're they one to one cancer mentorship for people that are like you have the similar cancer diagnosis to give you that support that didn't exist before. Right. And that's what I was looking for. Where is that camaraderie or that match. Yeah. Of who can I talk to that actually understands what I'm going through. Yeah. And I know I've attended events that you've thrown on behalf of a charity for. It's what organization. Leukemia Research Foundation is one of the ones that we've been supporting and I did a lot of different events to try to get more attention awareness about leukemia and ways to join the bone marrow registry. And I would say this brings us to the positive parts of our story. It's all been smooth sailing since. Yeah. No. Well I. So I've been very always cautious. I don't call myself a survivor. I hate that word actually. I think that it's like there's just so much you can't control. And for the people that don't make it it's not like they've lost or you know I hate hearing oh they lost their battle cancer. They didn't they didn't do anything different than what I did. I'm just happened to be here still. So different set of. Yeah. It's not that I'm special or they weren't or they didn't fight hard enough. So I hate the win loss thing and I don't consider myself necessary. I feel grateful that I'm I'm here obviously. But I don't like to say oh I'm a survivor. And if I do I would only be around other other cancer survivors where we're like shared in that experience. I don't like talk about it to people that have not gone through it. But yeah it's a it's a great feeling to be on the other side where you feel like you can be a mentor being part of it. And I feel like I've compartmentalized it certainly in a way where I'm not doing that as much as I should because it was a darker time. And then now talking about it and opening this up and these these stories that I haven't told anybody in a really long time. You know it makes me want to get more involved and see if there's other people dealing with with things that I could potentially be helpful with. Yeah. And I you know we're grateful you came through on the other side as well. I we've known each other for about a decade now and I'll tell you my first impression of you might not have been as positive as the impressions I have of you today. I thought you were rambling a little bit of an idiot but. Well yeah I was probably drinking then as well. That didn't help much. I wasn't trying to dive into that. But you know I I've quickly learned that there are people in this world who you know as you said earlier young Mike was trying too hard. But you know after I got past the the start of meeting you and I remember I'm not going to I'm not going to say the things that that you might have said at that time that rubbed me the wrong way. But within a couple of months I realized you're a pretty genuine dude. And thanks Scott. I love the backhanded. I don't know compliments like I don't remember my first impressions of you but I can tell you that you are one of my favorite people. That I'm sorry like much like a brother like I don't know if there's many other people that have driven me nuts. Yes to the pinnacle that you're capable of. But I love you in a brotherly way and like I would not trade any of the nuts that you drive me like nut. If you were going to do it I was going to do it. But no. No you are a good pun. You are a hustler. You bring people together more than anyone else I know. That's the truth. And yeah you've created a hell of a community here in Chicago and I feel fortunate that I get to be a part of it as often as I do and it's not as much as I would like. So I've done some incredibly stupid thing. I've definitely done some stupid things. Some incredibly stupid thing I definitely like I reflect upon at no point in my life whether I was 18 with cancer or I was past cancer. At no point in my life is like God you know never in my like in the moment I'm like God I'm stupid. But I look back now and like what the fuck were you doing on all these occasions like. Do you have one story? You don't have to. No it's just again a lot of my coping with trying to be normal involved drinking. All my what the fuck stories are all about drinking which if you want to go listen to any of the other podcasts that you did recently that can tell you all you need to know in a more extreme sense to some degree. But I'm just saying like the whole. You're saying episode 3 with Bill? Episode 3 with Bill is what I was trying to say. The coping mechanism for me a lot of times to feel normal after cancer was to go out and drink with everybody. And obviously my body and all the things that I've gone through didn't handle that in a normal way and led me into a lot of precarious situations. Some of which were hilarious. My dad still tells stories to this day. I'll tell you a story. Well this I don't even know if I was drunk this time but there is a story. Well one time I was new to Chicago and I had a girl that I had met on some kind of online dating thing and people at work told me to take her to the signature room. Which I had never even heard of but it's like a place that you go to propose. And this is our first date. And again this doesn't really involve drinking. This is just stupidity. But first of all I had no idea what I was getting into. I didn't understand what this place was. I just said oh people at work told me. First of all it's freezing. It's winter. I don't have hair so this girl is like walking really slow and I'm like we gotta go. Like let's go and I'm like walking 30 paces in front of her the whole time to get there. And then I get there and I see what the menu looks like and the cost. But I swallow my pride. I'm a gentleman. I pay for the bill. But then I get out and we leave and I see what the parking costs. And I'm like well can you at least like. It's like a Larry David episode where I was like look at the you know I got you this. So do you think you could cover parking? And that was like – we never talked to that person again. It was the first date signature room trying to get her to pay for parking. Such a Mike story. Yeah. So I wasn't drunk for that one. I wasn't even asking for drunk stories. I just wanted a story. Yeah, that was us. And you delivered. Thank you. There's worse but we'll keep them. Back to the positive. Would you say great story? So I want to – yes. I think you're going where I wanted to go. I told my wife I'm coming on this podcast and she said it's called Positively Terrible. What's your positive part? Are you fucking serious? She had no idea. What's the positive? I was like one, you know, hey, I'm alive. Two, we have a child that was created through science based on me jerking off in a room when I was 18. That's pretty positive. And she's like oh, yeah, I guess you're right. Oh, thank you. So the sperm came in handy. And holy God, I'm glad that I have a son who I consider to be the best thing that's ever happened to me. And he's only 15 months old but it's already just the whole light of my life. Yeah, that's awesome. And I can't wait for him to get to the point where he's more of a human and can talk to him and steer him down a lane that is slightly different from maybe some of the things that I did. And then have him reject those ideas. Ultimately disappoint him. We just hope he takes after his mom, both looks and personality. We're going to try. We're going to try. Appreciate you coming on today, Mike. Very much so. Absolutely. As I have more questions as a listener of things that bother me, I'll mention it. Like I said, if we can stop guests like myself from rambling for the first 15 minutes, that will probably help. Oh, also, before I wrap up, you had a new use for this podcast. So our child is teething. He's got molars. He has problems sleeping. And my wife and I are just at our wits' end. We don't know what to do. And I just so happen to be listening to the Positively Terrible podcast. And this kid was out in five seconds. He just boom. Tried everything else. We tried everything. Drugs, Tylenol, Motrin, whatever. But he's waking up all the time. And we put on the Positively Terrible podcast. And he's just sleeping. Scott's voice is just nothing is more soothing to this child. If you have a child at home that's having problems sleeping, I highly suggest Positively Terrible. The first 15 minutes of babbling, you don't even need it. All right. There you have it, folks. This has been a great episode. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate you coming on. I've known you for a decade now. And I think this is the first time we've dived in in this manner. You know, you said you don't… It doesn't happen. Yeah, I don't really do the whole thing. And it's not that I wouldn't be comfortable sharing it. It's just, you know, like I said, this is an opportunity that you set this example going forward of sharing things that maybe you wouldn't normally share and making it a comfortable space to do so. So I thank you for opening up that channel. That's very sweet. Thank you, Mike. I am humbled by the compliment. And I'm humbled by you being here today. I'm honored that you'll tell your story. And I think we're doing some good in the world. At least I hope we are. Maybe it's only a few people, but it's been a pleasure speaking with all our guests. But one of the other things that I like so much about this is getting to know people who I've known for a long time a little bit better. So thank you. And as always, it's been absolutely, positively terrible. I met you back at Tonica Fest, I confess I was nervous and stressed. Because I thought you were the best, I was right. And that night we got into a water gun fight. That's what I shot you in the face. It was fate I offered. You were free and you climbed us. I gave it to Mike, decided to change your mind. You did, yeah you did. Now I'm blind. I got you in my life, it's all right. If you don't, I'm free. I'm just glad to have your company. Then we got wild after that. Wild as a fat cat. Now we got out of the blue. I am so lucky I found you. And now I'm nothing like your boss. Or whomever I was to find the boss that I should save. Because I loved you to this day. It was fate I offered. You were free and you climbed us. I gave it to Mike, decided to change your mind. You did, yeah you did. Now I'm blind. I got you in my life, it's all right. If you don't, I'm free. I'm just glad to have your company. I got you back, time to confess. I confess, I was nervous and stressed. Because I thought you were the best, I was right.