Producer Dan (00:02.508)
You're tuned into Positively Terrible. I'm producer Dan, and each week my buddy Scott and I discuss surviving and thriving after trauma. It's a story that started when Scott, his wife's fiance, and her boyfriend walked into a bar. This week's Decent Human Being is Jackie. She's got a fucked up story about alcohol and her commitment to sobriety. Settle in, my terrible listeners. Today's episode is going to be Positively Terrible. Hey Scott!

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (00:29.662)
Hey Dan, how are you today?

Producer Dan (00:32.036)
Man, I'm doing pretty good. How are you?

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (00:35.158)
Right, I've had an exciting turn of events this week. Just something small, but something very meaningful for me is that I got tickets for a concert for the band The Taxpayers. Dan, you know why The Taxpayers are important to this podcast is the lead singer of The Taxpayers.

Producer Dan (00:40.821)
Ooooooh!

Producer Dan (00:53.348)
the taxpayers.

Producer Dan (00:58.156)
Yeah, because they allow us to have the goods and services provided by the government. They're really important for everybody to pay Scott.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (01:05.187)
Well, there's that. But they are the lead singer of the taxpayers is the one who wrote the theme song for Positively Terrible. I'm so excited. Yeah. Very recently I told my friend who lives in the Pacific Northwest, well, Naseem, she's been on the podcast. I told her that they had not been on tour for seven years and actually I did not discover them until six years ago.

Producer Dan (01:14.592)
And it's a banger.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (01:29.066)
So I've never had an opportunity to see them perform. They were teasing on Facebook that they were going to have some shows. And I said to Naseem, I said, I will go anywhere in the goddamn world to see the taxpayers. This is very important to me. And then when they announced the shows, they announced like just only four of them, but they're in Portland and Seattle and she's living in Tacoma right now. So I am going out to visit a very, very close friend of mine.

And we are going to see one of the bands who I have just always, well, always for the last six years have really, really wanted to see. So I am super excited about that. Hopefully I'll be able to get a picture with Rob and put them up on the, on the site.

Producer Dan (02:11.128)
You should be and tours are always fucked up. So let's get them on the, on the, on the show to tell us some stories.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (02:18.683)
I can guarantee you that they've got a lot of stories. I don't know if they'll be willing to come on the show. I will definitely ask Dan. I will tell him that producer Dan is a hell of a guy and I bet that will be able to convince him. But okay, I won't. I won't. I'll say it's a it's a shitty podcast. But it's DIY. See, it's a shitty podcast. It's a shitty podcast.

Producer Dan (02:32.775)
Don't oversell it. Don't oversell it.

Producer Dan (02:37.593)
Hahaha

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (02:39.734)
They're very much a DIY kind of punk band. So I think they'll, they'll dig it. But Jackie, do you have any, do you ever go to concerts?

Producer Dan (02:43.364)
There you go.

Jackie Rubio (02:51.134)
Yeah, yeah, I'm a big 80s fan. I relive my childhood every chance I get. Actually just a few years ago, my dream came true. I saw Bon Jovi in concert. Oh my gosh, it was absolutely the best day ever, you could imagine. Ha ha ha. Houston, he was in Houston.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (02:55.165)
Okay.

Producer Dan (02:59.178)
Nice.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (03:04.599)
Hahaha!

Producer Dan (03:06.)
What?

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (03:11.055)
Where, where, where was that at? What city?

Okay, awesome.

Producer Dan (03:15.46)
Nice. Does he still have the chest hair as pronounced as he used to?

Jackie Rubio (03:18.866)
Oh my gosh. Okay. So I didn't get the greatest seats. However, you know, I was, you know, so in love with, you know, his humanitarian aspect of him that he's still married to his high school sweetheart, that he does all these things. But what I forgot when I went in there is that man is a rock star. Like he just magnetized the whole stadium and

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (03:20.482)
Ha ha.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (03:39.03)
Hahaha!

Jackie Rubio (03:43.77)
Yeah, chest hair, all of it. I was absolutely, you know, a 13 year old teenage girl just gog I, I was crazy. I transported me to another time for sure. Yeah.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (03:45.974)
No, no, no.

Producer Dan (03:55.088)
that is awesome. There's nothing like being able to see a performer that has been doing it their whole life. And yes, yes.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (03:55.301)
Jackie and Jack.

Jackie Rubio (04:00.786)
Yeah, and doing it well!

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (04:03.618)
Well, and that's what I was going to say, Jackie, is that you've got these arena performers and you don't have a career of 30, 40 years without being great at those live shows. You can put out all the albums in the world, but if you don't put on a great performance, you don't last 30, 40 years. And that's another cool thing about like the taxpayers. I'm sure you've probably never heard of them. They're a small little band, but also these tiny bands, the way they make money is through their touring and they don't get

You know, they can't sell tickets if they don't put on great performances. Uh, of course they haven't performed for seven years. So, uh, I'm going to assume that they still put on great performances, but, uh, music is just something that's pretty fucking cool. And on that note, I will say that I did record on someone's podcast this week about music. So I'm not ready to release those details, but, uh, as it gets closer to release, we'll, we'll tease that a little bit, but Jackie.

Jackie Rubio (04:39.99)
Hehehehehehe

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (05:00.306)
uh... could you just tell us real quick what you're here to talk about today

Producer Dan (05:05.408)
other than John Bon Jovi.

Jackie Rubio (05:05.422)
Well, other than John Bon Jovi, absolutely. I could fill your whole podcast up with that. But, you know, I really just, I'm here to talk to you guys about getting down to the nitty gritty of life, of mistakes, of guilt, of shame, of grime, of dirt, of filth, of a lifetime of, you know, self-hatred. And then, you know, really, just really be honest.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (05:07.295)
Hahaha

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (05:11.254)
Hahaha.

Jackie Rubio (05:34.306)
I mean, just really get honest about what a human being can go through in life and how sometimes what it takes to grow and transform. I know that your podcast is, you know, being a decent fucking human, but I think mine's more like a journey of becoming a decent fucking human because I definitely didn't start that way, I don't think.

Producer Dan (05:57.1)
I like that. That's the best intro we've had.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (05:58.246)
Well, that is, thank you. I know I'm excited and Jackie, we spoke recently just a little bit and I know that the journey is culminated in sobriety and you're still going through some shit and part of being a decent fucking human is the journey. It is getting there. It's inside all of us, I think, but not everyone gets there.

Jackie, why don't, I'm gonna let you kind of start off with a little bit of an open-ended question. You said a lot of words to describe your earlier life. So, let's start with who are you? Who were you growing up?

Jackie Rubio (06:45.642)
Well, I grew up in a really, really poor, dysfunctional family. I suffered a lot of sexual abuse starting really early on at age of five, continued on throughout my family history, including my own father. We lived in a situation where we didn't have running water, we didn't have electricity.

I just remember taking a bath with a five gallon bucket of water. It was cold. There was a point in time where we camped on our property and we lived in an army tent. And then we had gravel floors. So I was a real, I want to say like little fire. I just always was, you know.

pretty tough, tomboyish, rugged, witty. And then I suffered a lot of maybe like some beat down with school and things like that, going to school with dirty clothes, being in a obviously very poor family. But I just always seem to fight that. I don't know how, but my little personality just always seemed to come out and...

make buddies with the, you know, the popular kids that were mean and make buddies with the, you know, I don't know how to explain that, but that was my personality. And I did, I've noticed a lot of, you know, internal work that kind of is still my personality. There is a part of me that I didn't lose through this entire journey. And, you know, that same part of me was a fighter and a survivor, and, you know, maybe a little bit of a chameleon to, you know,

fit in and make life work. And that's been a blessing and that's been a curse, unfortunately. I think if I could have always used my powers of persuasion for good, I would be having a different podcast right now. You know, you can talk to your mother, Teresa.

Producer Dan (08:49.138)
Hahaha

Ha ha!

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (08:52.087)
Yeah.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (08:57.035)
Well, you know, you started off by saying that you weren't always a decent fucking human, but it sounds like you weren't given a lot of opportunity to be a decent fucking human. That is a lot. Now, you started by saying sexual abuse starting at the age of five. And I take it this was at the hands of family?

Jackie Rubio (09:16.046)
Correct, yeah.

Jackie Rubio (09:21.482)
But yeah, it went from a family member's partner to my own family, you know, up to my father. I mean, it just, it was a nightmare as far as that goes, you know. But again, I was a fighter and even as a little tiny kid, you know, just fighting them off, like, you know, brawling if I had to. So I realized I've always had that just kind of strengthened me.

Producer Dan (09:51.512)
Okay. You have to.

Jackie Rubio (09:51.711)
But if you don't recognize it, use it correctly, it can get in trouble with it.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (09:57.807)
Yeah. And since you were fighting it off, does that mean that like from the start you recognize that this ain't right?

Jackie Rubio (10:10.158)
I would say with my first scenario, I don't think that I did recognize that right away. I think that it became manipulation and mind games and things like that at such a young age. I think I was able to honestly be groomed and manipulated by that man. But as I came up, you know, and faced it again, and then again, you know, by the time, you know, by the time I was...

I think nine, when my dad tried to start getting handsy, I was all about beating that old man's ass if I had to. I mean, it's just, that's where it brought me to the level that it brought me to. You know, it also, go ahead. Sorry. Well, it-

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (10:54.242)
Did you have any, oh go ahead. I was gonna say, did you have anyone who you could talk to?

Jackie Rubio (11:01.378)
You know, I think at that time I did not. I know that I told anybody that I could tell. And you know what, it was a small town. It was a different time. Those kinds of things were just shoved under a rug. I believe wholeheartedly that I had a mother that just came from a different generation and they, you know, you had to have a man, you had to have a husband. I don't know. I mean, I tried not to be too...

Judgmental about that even though I was you know obviously very angry. I mean literally I just said I didn't have anyone at the time so I just did a lot of things on my own and you know Did what I could to dodge to I don't know how to explain it really

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (11:53.65)
And you, you started saying like you try not to judge your mother and

What I want to say also is that, or I guess I should ask is, do you wonder why? Is that something that you back then or even now would say, why is this happening? Why is my mom letting this happen? Why is this person doing that?

Jackie Rubio (12:23.734)
I did often wonder why my mom was letting that happen. I think, as I think back, somehow I recognize that these men were sick, that these men had an illness basically, but I did not understand what was wrong with my mother. So I put a lot of anger and a lot of blame more on her, I actually think, than I did the abuser, because...

some piece of me just understood like there's something wrong, they're sick, it's illness, you know, I mean not that I appreciated it or anything like that. I mean, I still, you know, didn't did what I could to stay out of the situation. But I do remember finding myself much more angry with my mom, you know, but I say that I don't judge because unfortunately my story leads to a cycle of that. And I married a sex abuser

continue to seem to draw those men into my life, no matter like how hard I tried not to. So now, you know, I'm pulling that separation out and judging my mom is, you know, it's all wrapped up into my own self-hatred. The more that I, you know, hate my mom for doing that or allowing that, allowing it, not doing it, please don't misunderstood, but...

than the more that I turn that in on myself. So it's been a fine line. That self-hatred is a bitch, you guys. I mean, that, and when you live a life that you have so many mistakes, and now of course you guys could put this on and a psychiatrist could go, well, of course she had a life like that. Look at how it started, but.

when you're internally dialecting to yourself, you don't know that, you don't see that. All you do is just pound away on your own self. You know, you just kick your own ass constantly over and over again. And then you make the same damn bad decisions over and over and over because you got no, you got nobody in your corner, not even yourself, you know, and that's tough.

Producer Dan (14:32.72)
Thanks for watching!

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (14:41.17)
Well, it sounds like a cycle that might include shame and some survival in there. And, you know, we, I know that we're going to get to addiction, alcoholism. Um, but that's part of the, the survival side, the numbing in that. And life is complicated. So nobody teaches us how to do it. And like you mentioned, you mentioned psychiatrists and, you know, therapists and all of that. And.

Jackie Rubio (15:05.646)
Hahaha!

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (15:10.87)
Today, a lot of people are way more open about that, but nobody's out there teaching us how to process things and how to live. So it's a complicated thing and you're doing it when the people who are supposed to be giving you the most of that guidance are actually the people who are harming you. So it's completely understandable that you'd go down a path of self-hatred and some of the...

the trouble you got into. I'm saying trouble, we haven't talked about that, but I kind of want to hear about that because you said if you could use it for good. But I want to hear so when you were a fighter and when did this start, when did you start getting into trouble or making decisions that looking back on weren't the best ones for you?

Jackie Rubio (15:58.73)
Well, I think the first time that I experienced, to be completely blacked out drunk was I was about 13. And I had went with some older people and some grown adults, men, and drank to the point of blackout, puking out, I mean, and here's where I've learned the differences. A normal person that doesn't suffer from alcoholism

would have had something go off in the brain and go, holy shit, this stuff is bad. Like I never want to be in that position again, but an alcoholic, something will turn on and they'll want more and more, no matter how bad the consequences that you're suffering from. So that was my first experience with, I mean, when I was young, I was allowed to, you know, have a drink at the table when people were playing cards or, you know, something like that. But that was my first experience of being drunk.

drunk, blacked out, falling down, throwing up on yourself, you know, in a dangerous situation, drunk. And I do believe that from that very moment, that alcoholism, that reaction in my brain, that chemical or allergic reaction, whatever that is, turned on. And I've been dealing with it ever since, you know. I moved out of our house at 14. It was the last time my dad tried something.

plenty old enough to get the fuck out of there, fight back, all of that stuff. And so I just was kind of on my own at 14, partying, sleeping on people's couches, definitely not going to school. That was not my wheelhouse. And I got pregnant with my oldest daughter at 15. And then from there, just...

Jackie Rubio (17:54.882)
The relationships and the decisions, they seemed almost to get worse instead of better. The older I got, I had my oldest son, Devon, I had him at 18. And then I had all four of my kids by the time I was 24. And dealing with alcoholism, bad relationships, trying to be a mother, and a mother with multiple children too, not just one easy little peasy kid. I had four outrageously.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (18:22.89)
Yeah.

Jackie Rubio (18:24.21)
independent, vocal, opinionated children. Ha ha ha!

Producer Dan (18:28.304)
..

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (18:29.694)
Four kids who were taking after mom.

Jackie Rubio (18:32.102)
Exactly. Absolutely. That I know is the problem is that they definitely did take after mom. They had a real strong will and a real, you know, independent quality about them that they just they wouldn't fit the mold, you know. So that was a struggle and that included my two youngest son's dad. He was a sex offender. No, I do want to state this. Nothing.

ever happened to any of my children. It's been through the system, they've been briefed or whatever. So, I mean, not that makes up for it because it's only by the grace of God, it's not because of my own decision that didn't go to them. But it is something I do hold my head up to, a smidgen of trying to crumble that cycle. But yeah, so at 14, I was...

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (19:25.063)
Mm-hmm.

Jackie Rubio (19:29.614)
partying, I was getting all the girls together, you know, making them skip school, hitchhiking, hitchhiking to a Metallica concert, you know, I mean, just real, you know, not safe choices. And I didn't just do it by myself. I dragged other people into it. You know, I can remember being in, I think it was the fourth grade, I had got caught smoking in school.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (19:40.93)
Yeah

Jackie Rubio (19:59.434)
in the fourth grade. And I brought some other, you know, little fourth, fifth grade girls into it. And I decided that we were out of that school. So we all took off through our books, all of our school books, our backpacks into the river and we were taken off somewhere. Now, I don't know where we were going to go because this is a small town way away from anywhere. But we were climbing the fence and one of the gals at the time was a pretty

chunky gal and she couldn't get over the fence and her mom drove by and caught us. You know, I mean, so my persuasion to, you know, grab, grab friends and grab people and, you know, have them get into trouble with me has started on pretty darn early.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (20:45.45)
Yeah, and go ahead, Dan.

Producer Dan (20:46.616)
Uh, what, what's it like? You know, I, I didn't have kids till my, my late thirties. I can't imagine being 15, let alone a 15 year old hell raiser and having a kid. And then, you know, by the time I was 22 or 20, 24, having four of them around. Um, what was it like being 15 with a kid? Like, did your parents take the kid?

Jackie Rubio (21:11.114)
Yeah.

Producer Dan (21:15.756)
Was it with you all the time? She.

Jackie Rubio (21:17.335)
No, no, no. So I was pregnant at 15. I did have Dakota at 16, barely turned 16. And my mom moved out with her boyfriend and it was me and Dakota and my little sister actually lived with me at the time also.

Producer Dan (21:37.708)
I want to stop you right there real quick. I'm making a mark right here. Do we want to use her name or would you like me to take that out? Cool, no problem. Go ahead and start that over if you would. Just start over with telling me about what it's like when you're 16 and had your kid.

Jackie Rubio (21:42.378)
No, dig it out, yeah. Probably, I probably.

Jackie Rubio (21:53.574)
Okay, yeah, so I had Dakota at I just

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (21:59.202)
Hey, Jackie, what I will say is we would rather take it out than have you stumble over your words. So let's not worry about it. If you say it again, we'll just keep going.

Producer Dan (22:01.775)
You.

Jackie Rubio (22:08.558)
Okay, okay. Okay, so I had my daughter at, I had barely turned 16. We had an apartment and my mom actually moved out and my little sister who was 11 lived with me. I got a job at Burger King. I did my best to take care of her to pay rent, which is really high in Central Oregon. And they were just that.

there would be these cycles where I would just be strong and on it and just chew, chew all right along. And then bam, it would just blow up. And that's kind of what happened when the kids were little. But yeah, I would say that having four kids by the time I was 24, I mean, I was just exhausted. I was exhausted from

also carrying so much pain around and making mistakes. I had definitely, I had a nice little meth addiction there for about five years. And a husband that I couldn't stand and get along with and all these really bad psychological things that were going on in my head and trying to raise all the kids, you got all the guilt of being a terrible mom and being a terrible person. But at the same time,

I loved my kids. I mean, I absolutely loved them. I fought my entire life for them. You know, there were times that I could have gotten them taken away and maybe I deserved to have them taken away during some parts of my life, but I fought for them. I never let anybody take my kids. I love them so, so much, even though it was such a tricky scenario, you know, also being this.

Human being with all this pain all this problems all these bad decisions, you know and the addictions You know boy, those are a bitch you guys I mean unfortunately I Love my kids, but there were plenty of times in my life that those addictions won out, you know, they did they just won out

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (24:19.778)
Jackie, what I will say when you throw meth in there is one of your drugs that you used is that there was a murder in my family where my cousin murdered my aunt and meth was his drug of choice. And I know that without it, he wouldn't have been that guy. And...

It's a crazy thing the way that drugs just take over your life. And I understand that. And to hear so much of your story, or so little of your story even at this point, and to see where you are today is, you know, it makes me very, very happy for you, Jackie. During this time of your life, let's start at 14 when you leave.

and before you had any children, was there a point where you thought, yes, I'm living my life and thought that you were living, starting to live a good life?

Jackie Rubio (25:27.342)
I'm not really sure how to answer that, because it was really fueled with a lot of alcohol, not drugs at that time, but a lot of alcohol, a lot of wildness, a lot of risky, risky behavior, unsafe behavior. But I guess I did feel a very huge sense of independence, very huge sense of, I control my life. I decide.

If I'm going to be unsafe, I fucking decide that I'm unsafe. Nobody else gets to decide that for me. So, you know, I guess there was this, you know, partial of what you're explaining as far as, you know, feeling independent and in control. And then there was this other huge area of. Unsafe. Badly risky behavior, you know, putting myself into just terrible situations, you know, for about, I would say a year and a half is when I went from, you know, uh, moving out and then getting pregnant.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (26:25.099)
Did you recognize the situations as being unsafe?

Jackie Rubio (26:33.658)
I feel like I had taken on so much of other people's responsibility as my own, as my own fault, that I did continue to feel like anything and everything that happened in an unsafe situation was my fault. That I was at fault for it.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (26:55.282)
At 15 and 16, I barely had the ability to make a decision. And to have no parental guidance is, I couldn't imagine it. And yeah, I mean, to feel like something is your fault when you shouldn't have these burdens placed on you at that age is, it's so, and I'm sorry, I don't want.

Jackie Rubio (27:03.004)
laughs

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (27:23.714)
I don't know how you feel about me saying this, but it's just sad. And I feel for you, Jackie. When you were taking care of young children at this age, you said you were tired and...

But how were you even taking care of them? Like where was the money coming from? I think you said you had a Burger King or something. Is that all you had to rely on?

Jackie Rubio (27:53.11)
No, actually after I had my oldest son and was no longer with his father, I took a CNA course and became a certified nursing assistant and made ample, you know, funding there. The two older kids and I lived out of town and I drove pretty long periods of time, you know, and there's programs, there's a...

assistance with food stamps and assistance with childcare and things that I definitely qualified for. So I took advantage of that for sure. And that's sort of how I took care of the two oldest ones until I met my two youngest ones father, who I actually did get into a committed living together relationship with. And he was mostly the, I waitress, you know, on and off.

to help pay for certain things, but he was mostly the provider for, let's say, I think about eight years.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (28:53.813)
Have you ever asked your children about their memories of this time in their early lives?

Jackie Rubio (29:02.222)
So I'm gonna get into a little bit of what I'm going through right now. My oldest son was murdered December 16th of 2022. He went to pick up my grandson for his weekend visitation and his ex-wife opened the door and blew him away. Shot him right in the heart, killed him, shot him multiple times. And this is where...

That question you just asked me is probably one of the most painful questions because he's not here for me to ask him that. He's not here on this earth to be able to have that conversation with him. I mean I've had some difficult conversations with all of my kids, him included as I got sober, as they saw that I was you know

really making effort, really doing a lot better in my life. My son that was murdered, he was tough. He was tough on me. He didn't put up with no bullshit. He was very logical. Look man, look mom, I love you, but if you're drinking, you can't call me. You can't come here. You can't, you know. He was like really avid. You know, he didn't, he was, he had a boundary and you didn't cross it with him.

You know, he wasn't ugly per se, like he wasn't mean, he didn't say mean stuff, but that was it. Easy peasy. You know, I've got my grandson and he would have, my grandson has never ever saw me drink or know me to drink. My son was very clear with that. So, I mean, my relationship with my grandson is honestly one of the best motivators I had.

to get sober and stay sober because I love that little boy so much. You know, and I wanted to be a part of his life so badly and his dad was very clear. You know, he really was. So I have had those hard talks with my children though. My daughter, she actually spent about five years estranged from her whole family, all of us, until her brother was murdered. And so...

Jackie Rubio (31:17.982)
we're just easing back into that relationship. You know, we have a relationship now. We talk a lot, but as far as, and we've had some difficult conversations, but not full on conversation. And then my two youngest sons are real open. They were with me during, you know,

important times and you know really there for me in recovery and everything that I was going through you know in their opinion is you know mom you fucked up and we had it pretty rough but we wouldn't be who we are today if we didn't live the life that we had so that's coming from you know kind of the two younger ones and I mean I'm

I'm so proud of all my kids. Considering our scenario, those kids could just be lost in outer space. My daughter graduated high school. She was the first girl in our whole family to graduate high school. And she graduated with honors. She went to college. So she's never been in trouble ever her whole entire life. My son that was murdered, he was amazing. I mean, he just...

Like he went through like Youth Corps and he got a job straight out of Youth Corps, got his GED, went to work at the school district as a janitor, volunteered, taught the littles how to read. I mean, and then he went on to work for Facebook and do like electrical things or whatever. You know, he just, and he never, he's never, he did not drink, he did not smoke. He never got into any trouble ever.

I mean, I think that he got a speeding ticket or something. And then the two youngest, you know, the two youngest, my third son is a horse trainer. I've always been, I've always had horses as an adult. I've always kept horses around for the kids, no matter how hard of a struggle it was. And he's a horse trainer. He's, you know, about to start his own business. He's worked for some real qualified horse people. You know, he's done a really amazing job with that.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (33:13.377)
Hahaha.

Jackie Rubio (33:39.282)
My youngest guy, he's, you know, he teetered, he struggled with addiction himself with, you know, things like that. And he's probably stuck it out with me the most. I mean, he used to take me to my AA meetings. He left Oregon to come to Texas as a young, young adult child, like 18, 19, to, you know, take me to meetings and, you know, things like that. So he, he's just...

like doing great right now. He's about to get his contractor's license. He's about to get married. You know, he's got into a little bit of trouble. He's had a DUI that's, I don't even think it's on his record because of the diversion or whatever. So, I mean, these kids are, I mean, they're just amazing considering. Considering.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (34:28.118)
Jackie, you gave us a lot to work with right here. And the one thing that I'll say is, I can very much hear a proud mom. And it sounds like you should be. And even you struggled, had struggles with your children. Your daughter was estranged and your son very much set up boundaries. And honestly, that sounds like things to be very proud of. Because setting up boundaries.

Jackie Rubio (34:53.918)
Yeah, I am very proud.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (34:56.242)
setting boundaries and enforcing boundaries is one of the best things that we can do for our own mental health. And it's a very hard thing to do. Setting them is the easy part. Enforcing them, it sounds like they enforce them, which is the hard part, especially when it's with your mother. And I know that it hurt, but I'm hearing things to be proud of you. You raise some kids to be strong kids, so.

Jackie Rubio (35:11.518)
I'm going to go to bed.

Jackie Rubio (35:25.85)
Yeah, and I am proud of my son for setting those boundaries. And I am completely grateful that he set those boundaries in such a manner that my grandson will never, ever, ever see his grandma drunk, ever. And so I will always be grateful to my oldest son for setting those kinds of boundaries.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (35:47.55)
Well, and it sounds like a little bit of a gift to you, that you're going to have, yeah, you're gonna have that relationship with your grandchild that doesn't involve, well, not just that, you're gonna have a lot of relationships that aren't involved with drinking, but at what point did you decide that it was time to get sober?

Jackie Rubio (35:50.61)
Yeah, yeah, a blessing for sure.

Jackie Rubio (36:12.866)
So when the two oldest moved out and were doing their, you know, grown up kids stuff and then the two youngest were still junior high-ish, I just was going butt wild. I mean, I had a job, I kept a job and I had the most, and I will still say the most amazing friends ever, musicians. I mean, we went to, you know, toured and...

and partied cowboys rodeo kids I mean you name it was a rowdy fest at my house in my life and I was uh I was a beast I was probably teetering on 400 pounds but I was the funnest fat chick you have ever met in your life I just had a ball and um so

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (36:57.954)
I'm sorry.

Jackie Rubio (37:04.362)
That was, you know, unfortunately I was getting DUIs during that time and but I was keeping my job and I, you know, it was this confusing time because it was so much freaking fun and I was still working. I was still providing for my kids. I was, you know, still putting a roof over our heads and I was having a lot of fun, you know, but then, oh, bam, that stuff can turn on a dime, you know, all of a sudden.

wasn't having fun. I was unable to go out anymore without passing out, without pissing myself, without you know, you know, all of a sudden my good friends that love me that always wanted me to come party with them were like, oh leave her at home, she pisses her pants everywhere we go, you know, like and then it became so scary because I realized I couldn't fucking stop. I

I couldn't stop and I got so scared of realizing that I couldn't stop. So, you know, the kids were all grown. I made a decision to relocate. I thought that relocating would stop the drinking, you know, if I didn't know anybody and I didn't have any friends and I didn't have karaoke and I didn't have this and I wouldn't drink and it was actually the worst drinking.

of my whole entire life because I didn't have my children. I'd never lived it. You got to remember, I started having kids so young that I didn't live alone. I didn't live with a man, but I lived with my kids. And so I didn't really live alone ever. And so here I am trying to quit drinking in a new state and I live alone. And I'm telling you, I wanted to peel the skin off of my face. I was so uncomfortable in my own skin.

And the drinking became lonely, again unsafe. I would drive to get alcohol when my son took my keys and I couldn't drive, I got on a fricking black horse in the middle of the night, pitch black, and rode to the damn store to get my beer. Like, I mean, I was, but I was so lonely, so lonely. And...

Jackie Rubio (39:28.126)
You know, I was not in control of my bodily functions. I was, I mean, ostracated from my entire family. My sisters couldn't deal with me. They couldn't stand me. My kids, their hearts were just broken. I mean, they just, everybody was pretty much done with me, you know? And that's when some changes got made. I got on my knees.

And I mean, I still had a 30 rack of beer with me, don't get me wrong, but I got on my knees and I didn't get off of them. And I just continued to pray and pray and pray and ask for help. Whoever I was praying to, whether I was drunk praying or not praying, I mean, they heard me. And I think it was the next day that someone reached out to me and said they had a spot in rehab.

Producer Dan (40:17.336)
So that, first of all, thank you for sharing about your son. And I'm so sorry to hear that. It's that hurt to hear. And thank you. So while you were on your knees, while you're praying to anybody who's listening, were you also calling rehab places trying to get in trying to look for help? What was going on? And how they end up contacting you?

Jackie Rubio (40:25.346)
Thank you.

Jackie Rubio (40:45.002)
I had gone to an outpatient, I mean, I'm still trying to stay in AA meetings at this time, not successfully, but still in contact with people from AA that I had attended. And I had gone to like an outpatient type thing. And that outpatient lady apparently had reached out to somebody in an inpatient rehab service who the next day actually called me and said, hey,

Producer Dan (41:08.769)
Okay.

Jackie Rubio (41:13.226)
I want you to consider inpatient rehab.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (41:18.21)
Okay. Jackie Jackie, I've got first, first a little more of a fun question. I think it's more of a fun question. What do you, how do you take a horse to go get, is there something to hit your horse to in Texas? Or are you going through one of those drive through liquor stores on a horse? What's happening? How, how do you even do that?

Jackie Rubio (41:31.918)
Thanks for watching!

Jackie Rubio (41:37.714)
So, okay, this is the funny part. This is how people will cooperate with you and enable the shit out of you, even complete strangers if you just ask nicely enough. So this horse is really tall. I mean, I could barely get on, let alone when I'm drunk. So I mean, I don't even know how I got the saddle on. I don't even know how I got on him. But I get to the store and if I get off this horse, I'll never get back on.

And I live like two or three miles from the store. And it is late at night. It is pitch black. So I'm sitting on this horse and I go to the store and there's this guy walking by and I'm like, hey, and I give him my debit card and I ask him to give me a six pack of beer and a pack of Marlboro's. And I give him my pin number and the whole shebang while I'm out there sitting on my horse.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (42:26.122)
I'm sorry.

Jackie Rubio (42:35.579)
under the spotlight from the electric pole, just waiting on somebody to bring me my beer and my cigarettes. Yeah, yeah. I know it is funny and I understand that. And I'm glad that there are some funny parts about things that I can remember and laugh about.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (42:44.834)
funny. I can almost.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (42:55.302)
Yeah, and I mean, that's how we cope, right?

Producer Dan (42:55.724)
We gotta be able to laugh at ourselves.

Jackie Rubio (42:57.934)
Absolutely.

Producer Dan (42:59.708)
and

Jackie Rubio (43:02.359)
Yes!

Producer Dan (43:03.556)
How many times have you gone liquor shopping on a horse? Just once, couple? What's the most you've ever bought whilst on horseback, liquor-wise? Okay.

Jackie Rubio (43:06.966)
couple. A couple.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (43:07.926)
Yeah.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (43:12.822)
Yeah.

Jackie Rubio (43:14.531)
I think this was it. It was like a 12 pack of beer and I had to figure out how to put it all around. I did drop a couple on the way home and it was very disappointing.

Producer Dan (43:21.338)
Ha ha!

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (43:25.004)
I can almost guarantee.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (43:29.334)
Hehehehe

Producer Dan (43:29.732)
So maybe in the future, like just be better prepared. Get some saddlebags for any listeners. Okay.

Jackie Rubio (43:35.582)
Yes, absolutely. And a shorter horse and a smaller ass so you can get on and off a lot easier. Ha ha ha.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (43:36.467)
I'm sorry.

Producer Dan (43:44.402)
Can you get a DUI while operating a horse? Do you know?

Jackie Rubio (43:48.234)
You know, I don't know what the rules are about that. I know you can on a bicycle, on a boat, I mean, on a skateboard. So I'm assuming they could nag tag you on a horse.

Producer Dan (43:51.808)
If we've got it right.

Producer Dan (43:59.536)
If we've got any listeners in Texas in particular, we'd really like to know the laws if you've got some insight there.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (44:07.178)
Jackie, I don't know if this is fun or not, but I can almost guarantee that there's a picture of you on someone's Facebook of this lady who they saw on a horse with a 12 pack of beer. But Jackie, kind of one last question on the addiction side. You said that you got very scared because you realized you couldn't stop.

Jackie Rubio (44:07.532)
Yeah.

Jackie Rubio (44:20.266)
Yeah, yeah.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (44:35.862)
Did it take that long to realize you couldn't stop or is that had you known for a long time and maybe not admitted it to yourself?

Jackie Rubio (44:45.622)
Yeah, you know, that would be a trick question that maybe I just tricked myself because up until that moment when I wasn't having fun, I wasn't partying with my friends anymore and I mean I was just like a wreck, I don't really think across my mind that I couldn't stop. But you gotta, you know, you put yourself in these positions where you have...

other people that are like you, other people that drink as much, if not more than you do. You compare yourself, you know, we all have this picture of, well, I will say myself, this picture of an alcoholic, you know, it's a hobo bum, you know, living under the bridge, drinking out of a paper bag. And here I was raised four kids and had a job for a long time and kept a house and, you know, raised horses and, you know, things like all on my own. So I think that there's a...

a trick that goes on in your mind. And so I don't think I knew I couldn't stop until I knew I couldn't stop.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (45:49.57)
I think that maybe this is the first time that I've really understood what denial is. You know, you always hear that that's a part of addiction is that denial. And hearing that from the time you were 14 until somewhat recently, you hadn't considered that. I mean, that sounds like some pretty serious denial there and something that a lot of addicts go through.

We're running short on time and you've got some stuff that you want to talk about that you've done that are great. So you go ahead. It sounds like, um, you said you try to go to the AA meetings or 12 step meetings. Um, is that what got you sober or was it the in, um, what's the word I'm looking for the treatment, the rehab inpatient

Jackie Rubio (46:37.631)
In case.

So I think that there was a combination probably. I think I was in such severe alcoholism that I really needed that time absolutely out of society and completely emerged and submerged in. And I got the biggest gift of my whole entire life in that rehab. I was asked to meditate for the first time. And that little...

idea of meditation in that first few days of rehab has really what has changed my life. You know, it took several years. I mean, it's not something that I was like, oh, I'm a namaste now. No, it's not like that. But you know, that meditation and that practice of meditation is how saved my life on multiple occasions, you know. So I know we are running low on time. I would like to say that.

Producer Dan (47:17.182)
Wow.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (47:23.222)
Hahaha

Jackie Rubio (47:38.142)
A trip to rehab was important and necessary. Unfortunately, it wasn't the end of my drinking career. Yes, I did a fantastic job. And then in AA, met a man straight out of prison with a terrible background. I was straight out of rehab and I thought we were gonna have this just wonderful twisted love story. And he was a really bad man and I was...

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (47:43.362)
Okay, that was my next question, so thank you.

Jackie Rubio (48:06.142)
really vulnerable and in a really terrible place and some stuff transpired in my life with him. And I had a relapse and it was a really like a blacked out relapse and I started fire in the house that I had just bought. I had just bought this house, it was mine, paid for it, lived in it two days, started on fire. So I have, I spent 10 days.

I was resuscitated. I spent 10 days in a coma in the burn unit. I have three or four third degree skin graft surgeries on my back, on my face, on my neck, on my ears, on my hands. Got some pigskin on my arms. And that was September 7th of 2020. And I have never touched a drink since. Never.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (48:55.318)
I sincerely wish we had an extra 20 minutes now. This is a new development I wasn't prepared for. So I will ask, what happened? How did the fire start? Was it intentional? Was this a suicidal act? Or was it blacked out and something happened?

Jackie Rubio (49:00.035)
I'm out.

Producer Dan (49:00.565)
Ha ha!

Jackie Rubio (49:05.006)
suck.

Jackie Rubio (49:14.498)
Definitely not a suicidal act. And unfortunately, this gentleman who will spend the rest of his life in prison's word is all I have to know what happened. And he said, I was fighting with him. I was burning his belongings and I started the fire. So, and to be honest, it does kind of sound like me. No, I mean.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (49:16.97)
Okay.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (49:43.134)
Oh, that's uh, oof. Hehehehe

Producer Dan (49:43.895)
Boop!

Jackie Rubio (49:45.302)
I do, I do know, I do have some glimpses of stuff. And I do know that there was a small fire started in the bathtub of the house and it was paper. So from that point, because maybe it was a, you know, chemicals or older bathtub from a mobile home, but it blew up. And I remember,

putting my hands up and down the hallway, and I was thinking, I mean, I was burning, and I couldn't breathe, and I was thinking, God, this is immobile, this can't be that far and that long to get out of this. And then I just remember thinking, oh my God, this is it. And I, this is how you die, this is how your kids are gonna remember you. But somehow I had crawled.

um, all the way out to the living room and knocked over a couch and was like laying on top the couch. And, um, this guy, even though he left me in a burning home, I guess found it finally in his heart to call 911. And so they were able to see me because I was laying, um, on the couch and the whole place was smoky and one of the doors was on fire. So they, um, were luckily able to see me and get me out of there. So, yeah.

That's a hell of a relapse. That's why you just can't make the mistakes in your program when you're working your AA steps and when you're, you just, you can't. They suggest that you don't get in a relationship the first year, don't fucking get in a relationship the first year. You know, they suggest that you, you know, you go to 90 meetings in 90 days, go to 90 meetings in 90 days, because to be honest with you, I know for a fact, if I pick up a drink now, I will die.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (51:21.41)
Ha ha ha!

Jackie Rubio (51:35.338)
You know, my, you just pick off, you pick up when you start drinking again, however bad and however addicted you were when you stopped it, you don't get it. You don't ever go back. Once your brain goes from pickle or cucumber to a pickle, you're fucking pickled, you don't get to go back. You know, so. Yeah. So.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (51:55.49)
Well, I can understand that nearly dying in a fire would be a very convincing way to help you, remind you to stay sober. And I'm so glad you came out of that one alive. And I wanna hear, so you had a couple of things you really wanted to talk about. And I said I had a hard stop that's coming up in like five minutes. I will make an exception. I might be a couple minutes late to where I'm going, but I do...

want to hear about this. So you've told me you wrote a book and that you started a nonprofit. So you can start with whatever, whichever you want to.

Jackie Rubio (52:35.03)
Yeah, so when I was in rehab, I got pretty inspired and got a pretty good understanding of women. There were 16 of us, different walks of life, different ethnicities, different drugs of choices. And I sat in that room the first day, I was shaking, I was vomiting, I was sweating profusely, I was withdrawing from alcohol. But the one thing that I could not ignore is how

similar we all were. At the bottom of it all, in our hearts and in our stories, how similar we all are and how alone every single one of us felt and how ashamed every single one of us felt. And it morphed after the fire, you know, it morphed into wanting to share with other women.

wanting to make sure that they felt heard, that they felt safe in a variety, not just alcoholism, not just addiction, but with all kinds of issues that women struggle with. And when I was in rehab and the first time I put pen to paper for the first time in God knows how long, first of all, I was finally not seeing double vision, so and wrote my story as just the healing that came out of it. And there's quite a bit that transpired into

Morphing on the nonprofit. So I have a nonprofit. It's a woman's empowerment nonprofit. It's based solely on sharing of our stories So if there is a woman that's struggling with something she writes into me and I can match her with a woman who's been through Very similar if not same scenario and that woman will give her some wisdom

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (54:13.634)
Oh wow.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (54:18.678)
How do they, how do they find you? Where are you at?

Jackie Rubio (54:22.002)
My website, okay, let me pull that up, make sure I don't get it wrong. The website is tran

Producer Dan (54:34.808)
Nice. We'll make sure that's on the website in the show notes.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (54:35.721)
Okay. Yep, and do you have a Facebook, Instagram, any social media?

Jackie Rubio (54:39.322)
Yes, and we have a Facebook page. I have a Facebook page. I'll send over to you guys also. I can't say it, I just don't know if they can find it. Sorry.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (54:52.534)
Well, yeah, we will share all of that, not a big deal. And did you want to plug your book as well?

Jackie Rubio (54:58.698)
Yes, so, you know, I do want to remind everybody that there is light at the end of the tunnel. And also, you know, truth be told, I have an eighth grade education. I never went to high school. I did get my GED when I was 18. I tried to go to college a couple times with the kids and stuff. It just never worked for me. So, but I am a co-author.

And my chapter about my trip to rehab and what inspired my nonprofit is in this book called Divine Love. And I got an entire chapter there and it's called the longest Uber ride because nobody gave a fuck about me when it was time to go to rehab and I had to take an Uber.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (55:33.672)
Okay.

Producer Dan (55:44.228)
Ha ha ha.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (55:47.412)
All right. Fantastic. And, um, we do, like I said, I am short on time. I shouldn't keep saying this, but I am. And I've loved this conversation. You're truly a decent fucking human. Jackie, is there any last thing that you'd like to say?

Jackie Rubio (55:47.934)
I'm sorry.

Jackie Rubio (56:04.994)
Just that your life is never too far gone to pull yourself out of it and to be a decent fucking human.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (56:13.642)
All right. I love it. And Jackie.

Producer Dan (56:13.68)
Well said.

Producer Dan (56:17.548)
strong start and a stronger finish. Jackie, you're a hell of a guest.

Jackie Rubio (56:20.05)
Hehehehe

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (56:20.198)
Jackie, we are honored and humbled and grateful that you were able to come on here and tell your story, not just come on here and tell, but that you're alive and that you're sober and we're so proud of you. Thank you so much for being on Jackie.

Jackie Rubio (56:36.594)
Yes, thank you guys so much for having me. Have a great day.

Terrible Scott (He/Him) (56:39.602)
All right. For sure. And terrible listeners. Thank you for listening. Don't forget to follow us on social media at positively terrible. Subscribe to our podcast, wherever you like to listen. You can also send us an email if you've got a story to tell and want to contact us. That's at podcast at positively terrible.com. And as always today has been absolutely positively. Terrible.